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Zeroesque
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 451
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| BasariStudios wrote: | | Sina, when are you getting LexaPro or any SSDIs? |
This is a little rough, all things considered.
| jimknopf wrote: | | Just let Sina go his way. |
+1.
| Vlad_77 wrote: | | ...your posts may be interpreted in three ways... |
You're a graduate student in psychology? Whip out your DSM IV and you might find a few more.
Okay...that was rough on my part! 
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Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10 |
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synthguy
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | ...the STR-1, MOD-7, AL-1, and other engines....sound nothing like that traditional "Korg workstation sound" to me. These are new areas to explore and discover for sound design. Even some of the new HD-1 content is far superior to any previous keyboard (OASYS not withstanding perhaps), and do not bring that traditional Korg workstation sound to mind....in fact, its so crystal clear that it makes me think more of a traditional Roland sound (a good thing in this respect).
...Putting all of these new and unique engines together into a combi or song is where the real amazing possibilities are, and creates a new "sound" that is totally unique. Its the integration of the engines, even feeding sound sources from one to another for sound design, that sets things apart. |
So many things about the Kronos excite me more than I have been for any instrument for ages. But what Ronf posted has become a major factor in my desire to get this monster. Overall, it definitely has a KORG "attitude," thanks in no small part to Jack Hotop, Peter Schwartz and the rest of the KORG programming team. Stephen Kay too? The programming team helps bring a synthesizer to life, and this team develops a sort of sonic signature the way a band does. It's something you look for when you become a fan of a particular company, what their next instrument sounds like compared to what you have now, and I've grown quite addicted to the "KORG sound" because of the way these guys approach KORG synths.
But with the OASYS and now the Kronos, we now have a wondersynth which is kind of a chameleon. The KORG sound is definitely there, but it also sounds like something else. After listening to a number of demos of The K, it sounds amazingly like a whole arsenal of synths from different makers. Or if you're going to balk at that, then a number of synths from KORG made by different teams, with different philosophies and sonic signatures as goals. But for me, I can now hear what RonF is hearing, that there's something decidedly "Roland" in some of the Kronos patches. Being a big Roland fan still, I like this a lot. I also hear something rather like the Access Virus, and synths made by Waldorf. A bit of Moog, a lot of Arp and Oberheim. And of course the SY77, MS-20 and Polysix!
Last month, I bought an SY77 because I was afraid that I'd have to settle for keeping my arsenal as it was, but needed badly the FM aspect that my Kurzweil PC3 was being such a pain about. And what better choice than the real deal? But I kept hearing these demos of the Kronos that are simply mind expanding when you consider all these instruments, just the synthesizers, coupled with a well endowed and outstanding virtual effects rack. The variety of sounds available in ONE instrument from ONE company hasn't happened before. So I've decided to have a garage sale and let go of a few choice pieces I collected in order to fund the purchase of a maestro's workstation, the SY77 going first. Otherwise, I'll have to wait much longer, and The K will no doubt make most of my arsenal redundant anyhow.
Whether or not the Kronos will give me a maestro's inspiration remains to be seen, but it can't hurt. 
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Sina172 wrote: | | and most importantly, anti-aliasing oscillators and WORLD-CLASS DAC's! |
Kronos, OASYS, and M3 ALL use the SAME DACs. Get a clue, man. 
| Sina172 wrote: | | If you spend ENOUGH time on the M3 and the OASYS/KRONOS, you will see how HUGE the differences actually are. |
I've spent enough time to notice that the difference is not that astronomically huge as you're putting it. Get off the jerk-off train, Sina. It's all nice, it's a typical Korg sound plastered across over all three boards. The fidelity is high on all three boards, compressed samples or not.
| Sina172 wrote: | | If you REALLY push EDS-1 to its limits, you can and WILL get a LOT of distortion, because its TOO WEAK of an engine to handle anything heavy like that! |
You are very wrong on this one. Ever heard about GAIN STAGING, huh? Do it right, you won't get any distortion in EDS-1 or HD-1, doesn't matter. Push it hard (and by that I don't mean "pump up the volume so that it clips like a motherfucker"), everything will stay pristine on the M3, except HD-1 has more polyphony so that saves it a bit (but doesn't relate to sound quality). Otherwise, the sound is not astronomically different. Those are my experiences. You can probably hear an ant pissing in your backyard from 50 feet away and it bothers you.  Not everyone is born with alien ears.
So, you may not want to believe other reviewers. That's fine, it's your right. But get the f*ck out of your jerk-off train and stop speaking about f*ck*ng astronomical differences between the three. There isn't such a big difference in the rompler part of them. The big difference are synth engines. Everything else is pretty much standard run-of-the-mill Korg rompler sound that didn't evolve that much throughout the years, except only getting better piano samples. IMHO, YMMV, and all that.
Too bad this forum doesn't have a "Block" feature, so I don't have to read your f*ck*ng ramblings anymore. |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I know, I know, EXer. It's hard to resist.  |
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drama1
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Holy Crap. Never thought this thread would get so much action I certainly admit the Kronos sound quality is a step ahead of the M3, but not as much if you really compare them side by side with identical programs. I have done this using the legato string program from kronos and M3. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Is the Kronos a better board? Of course it is. Don't get me wrong, I want one, but I'm trying to logically weight the options if I really need three different analog engines, string modeling and FM or is 98% of my live playing going to be using the EDS/HD1. My M3 has Radias and memory exp. board/ 73 keys. I just think it might be overkill for me to purchase the Kronos at this time. Like I have said in previous threads, I get SST on the M3 using Karma, and I'm sorry, but having those scene buttons right above your left fingers for quick program/combi changes with no sound cutoff is priceless. I have fat fingers and using the touchscreen might be an issue for me when changing programs/combis. Next years NAMM, I believe is going to be rather interesting. I get a feeling Kurzweil is going to introduce something big. Just my humble opinion. Now, off to a gig to play a carnival. I tell my family in the summer I'm a carny living on corndogs and budlite. |
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synthguy
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| EvilDragon wrote: | | Actually, he's pretty much correct. HD-1 isn't THAT much different than EDS, structurally. You just get more velocity layers and wave sequencing. But the rest is pretty much the same old same old. |
I thought I'd add in my perspective on this issue from another angle since there are a number of people who insist there are clarity differences, and others who insist there aren't.
I have yet to experience the Kronos - or JP-80, thought I'd throw that in to tweak the peanut gallery - but I do happen to own the current cream of the crop of the Kurzweil line, the PC3. It's reputed to have the best, clearest DACs in the series, and it does sound very good, both over headphones and speakers. I own superb versions of both.
But I have to say that the only thing the M3 lacks in sound quality, clarity and presence to the PC3 is the reverb. The PC3 has a superb reverb implementation, and in general, the capacity for more effects. But reverbs aside, the PC3 VAST engine and samples really don't have anything over the EDS and roms of the M3. In fact, the PC3 has many samples such as the pianos which I think are harmed by ridiculous amounts of compression. Just solo them in a bare initial patch. The M3 sampls don't suffer from anything like that, and frankly, I prefer the M3's EDS filters.
Just one sound freaks opinion, to be sure, as I'm a picky sod.
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madbeatzyo111
Guest
Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| EvilDragon wrote: | | Sina172 wrote: | | and most importantly, anti-aliasing oscillators and WORLD-CLASS DAC's! |
Kronos, OASYS, and M3 ALL use the SAME DACs. Get a clue, man.
| Sina172 wrote: | | If you spend ENOUGH time on the M3 and the OASYS/KRONOS, you will see how HUGE the differences actually are. |
So, you may not want to believe other reviewers. That's fine, it's your right. But get the f*ck out of your jerk-off train and stop speaking about f*ck*ng astronomical differences between the three...
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Whoa, battle of the Korg/Kurz fanboys
Between EvilD's best efforts to promote Kurz by denigrating anything Korg-related, and Sina's worshipful praise, I would have to lean towards.....
...Sina, at least for this case. There's a whole other thread in which people who own both Kronos and M3 unequivocally state that the former wipes the floor with the latter. It's hard to ignore that kind of testimony. |
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iluvchiclets
Full Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 187
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| drama1 wrote: | Finally got to play a Kronos yesterday and here are my thoughts. There definitely is a step up in sound quality vs. the M3. Is it leaps and bounds above the M3? No, but it's definitely there. To my ears the board sounds wonderful, but there is no doubt it is a Korg sound. Right now I'm going to hold off on purchase mainly because I do not care for the configuration of the Kronos (no 73 key semi- weighted) and hang on to my M3-73. I did notice in set list the smooth sound transition works great. I can achieve the same results using Karma on the M3, so that is really not an issue for me. Thank you to everyone for responding to this post. By the way, it is a beautiful board, although the screen is definitely somewhat difficult to read, more difficult than the M3. Don't go by me though, I'm an old guy.  |
I kind of felt the same way. The Kronos sounded different, but it still sounded very Korg-like. The Kronos Hammonds had the Korg "take" on that sound, same with the EP's. The were of the Korg variety.
I think for the money, I was expecting to be blown away!
If you want to try something different, an M3 and a Yamaha MoX6 would give you very different sound variations, two keyboards, and still save some money. Maybe a different way of looking at this? |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| madbeatzyo111 wrote: | | EvilDragon wrote: | | Sina172 wrote: | | and most importantly, anti-aliasing oscillators and WORLD-CLASS DAC's! |
Kronos, OASYS, and M3 ALL use the SAME DACs. Get a clue, man.
| Sina172 wrote: | | If you spend ENOUGH time on the M3 and the OASYS/KRONOS, you will see how HUGE the differences actually are. |
So, you may not want to believe other reviewers. That's fine, it's your right. But get the f*ck out of your jerk-off train and stop speaking about f*ck*ng astronomical differences between the three...
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Whoa, battle of the Korg/Kurz fanboys
Between EvilD's best efforts to promote Kurz by denigrating anything Korg-related, and Sina's worshipful praise, I would have to lean towards.....
...Sina, at least for this case. There's a whole other thread in which people who own both Kronos and M3 unequivocally state that the former wipes the floor with the latter. It's hard to ignore that kind of testimony. |
I didn't compare anything here with Kurzweil, lay off of it, will ya? 
I am not promoting anything, nor am I a particular fanboy of any manufacturer (except I hate Roland). I am NOT denigrating anything, I give credit where credit is due, regardless of manufacturer. I have both a Korg and a Kurzweil at home. My first synth was a Korg and I still love it, so shut the f*ck up everyone already!
Last edited by EvilDragon on Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sina172 wrote: | | Just ask Jordan Rudess who used to own RACKS of Kurzweil Modules and now just uses an OASYS on stage! |
Actually he now has a Kronos on stage.
And he still has all those Kurzweils, including a PC3x in his studio. And he does use them on DT albums from time to time, even newer ones. |
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sina172 wrote: | | But he just doesn't use them on stage anymore because the KRONOS/OASYS provides a level of expression and quality he's never had before. |
Are you his spokesman now?
He still has his Kurzweils because those are quality instruments, too. |
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