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shap
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Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: Release Velocity on XF, P-95, P-140, Roland Fantom G. |
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Looked at the Motif XF and the P-140 MIDI implementation charts. Looks like Yamaha does not implement note-off velocity.
The implementation tables for the P-95 and the Motif XF give:
| Code: | | Transmitted, Velocity Note OFF: X 9nH,v=0 |
The implementation chart for the P-140 just gives "X".
"X" means "no".
Roland Fantom G does implement note-off velocity, per Fantom G MIDI Implementation, p. 7, top right.
So thanks, Scott, for pointing out Busch's observation. I guess I'll hold for the K-88 rather than driving weighted stuff from the Motif (hadn't wanted to name the board, because I didn't want this thread to become pointless). |
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shap
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Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Driving a K61 from external weighted keyboard? |
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| Zeroesque wrote: | If using a K88 and a 61 controller, you might have issues getting them close together, as you would need to see the K's screen (or you could put the K88 on top).
Good luck...get a Kronos!!! |
Definitely getting the Kronos. Only question is how soon. 
Given the note-off velocity issue, I'm going to hold out until July and see what happens on my K-88 preorder. Which brings me to consider the reverse problem: driving K88 from a semi-weighted controller. I have an option to get a Fantom G6 cheap, so I was considering that, but your point about placement is well taken. Any suggestions?
Definitely don't want an MPK; the action stinks. The Edirols or the Axioms seem okay, but if I was going to grab a controller anyway I was kind of hoping for trigger pads. To be clear, the pads are "nice to have", but not critical.
Oh, and before somebody wonders out loud, yes, that does mean that I might end up with a Motif, a Fantom G, and a Kronos, and yes, that is excessive, and no, I'm not crazy (or at least not for that reason). It's a competitive analysis thing. |
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Scott
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Release Velocity on XF, P-95, P-140, Roland Fantom G. |
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| shap wrote: | The implementation tables for the P-95 and the Motif XF give:
| Code: | | Transmitted, Velocity Note OFF: X 9nH,v=0 |
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I believe the "translation" of that is "no" (that's the X), "but instead we send 9nH" (note off) "with a velocity of zero" (v=0). As long as you're not dealing with note off velocity, then sending Note On with a velocity of zero is an acceptable alternative to sending Note Off (8nH), it will produce the same results as if you had sent a Note Off. |
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shap
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Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Scott:
Yes, in the sense that it will work, but if the Kronos actually makes use of the note-off release velocity then of course you won't get that from the Yamaha or the P- series. What I was trying to emphasize here is that note-off velocity isn't transmitted.
I'm actually stunned that the P-140 midi implementation chart alleges not to send note-off at all. That has to be a mistake, and it would be inconsistent with the behavior of the rest of the P- series, but I haven't got that device in a state where I can easily check it at the moment, and I know better than to try to "borrow" it from my six year old... 
shap |
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Scott
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| shap wrote: | Scott:
Yes, in the sense that it will work, but if the Kronos actually makes use of the note-off release velocity then of course you won't get that from the Yamaha or the P- series. What I was trying to emphasize here is that note-off velocity isn't transmitted.
I'm actually stunned that the P-140 midi implementation chart alleges not to send note-off at all. That has to be a mistake, and it would be inconsistent with the behavior of the rest of the P- series, but I haven't got that device in a state where I can easily check it at the moment, and I know better than to try to "borrow" it from my six year old...
shap |
Yes, I understood you were emphasizing that note-off velocity wasn't transmitted... I was just trying to clarify in case there was any confusion about just what that other entry meant.
Absolutely the P-140 sends note off of SOME kind or notes would ring forever. Pretty much by definition, if a keyboard doesn't send Note Off, then it instead sends Note On with a velocity of zero. It has to do *something* when you let go of a key to shut off the sound. The other manuals were being a little more helpful by telling you what they were doing instead of sending Note Off, but there is no requirement that the MIDI implementation chart be that precise. I'm sure the P-140 is doing the same thing, they just didn't include the extra bit of helpful explanation, which is pretty much implied anyway. |
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EvilDragon
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad my PC3K8 receives and transmits release velocity. It's quite ready to take Kronos as its slave.  |
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Bruce Lychee
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Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. Having thought about this bit more, I'm going to have to deal with the action on the 88 and sell the CP1. As much as I love the CP1 action, I think the note off velocity issue would nag at me. I do spend 90% of my piano time on my SK5 anyway. At least selling the CP1 will fund an Access Virus.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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shap
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Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce:
Tell you what. Ship me the Shigeru Kawai and I'll buy you any two Kronos you want. That way you won't have to part with the CP-1.  |
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Bruce Lychee
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Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| shap wrote: | Bruce:
Tell you what. Ship me the Shigeru Kawai and I'll buy you any two Kronos you want. That way you won't have to part with the CP-1. |
The SK5 is one instrument that I never consider selling. When it comes to sitting and playing piano, it just can't be replaced. I just ordered the 61 key Access Virus ti2 because I know I'll be selling the CP1. I figure when I need a more synth like action I can control the Kronos with the Access too.
I just ordered a new Virus for $2750 from an Access dealer. Anyone know if that is a good price? It was the best I could find after a bit of impulsive online shopping.
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Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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shap
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Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Dude, I'm not asking you to sell it. I mean, that would be unthinkably disrespectful for such a fine Piano. I'm offering to trade.
I'd already seen you waxing poetic about the Shigeru Kawai elsewhere. There's just something about jerking a dangling chain...
More seriously, my folks own a Baldwin Grand that I kinda like. Unfortunately the sound board is cracked. Doesn't sound bad, but constantly in need of tuning. |
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Bruce Lychee
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Joined: 16 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| shap wrote: | Dude, I'm not asking you to sell it. I mean, that would be unthinkably disrespectful for such a fine Piano. I'm offering to trade.
I'd already seen you waxing poetic about the Shigeru Kawai elsewhere. There's just something about jerking a dangling chain...
More seriously, my folks own a Baldwin Grand that I kinda like. Unfortunately the sound board is cracked. Doesn't sound bad, but constantly in need of tuning. |
Pianos that haven't been maintained properly don't hold a tune well. Bad pianos also don't hold their tune very well either. Sounds like that Baldwin has seen better days. My piano needs a tune about every 6 months but every 4 would optimal.
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Vintage Vibe 64 |
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shap
Full Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce Lychee wrote: | | Pianos that haven't been maintained properly don't hold a tune well. Bad pianos also don't hold their tune very well either. Sounds like that Baldwin has seen better days. |
All of the above. But also, once the sound board goes the piano is gone. We checked, and it very nearly be cheaper to replace the piano than to fix it. Really too bad, since that particular one sounds pretty good and has a very nice action on it. |
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