Korg Forums

aron · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject:

>bring programs into combi's with out having to copy effects ,
stop running out of polyphony in combi mode

I think that my proposal would work for a future upgrade. Basically it would mimic the effects of "important" programs by utilizing the IFX for the most important programs.

As far as not using polyphony for muted programs, yes, when you use MUTE it would be great if it would not use polyphony. Dan already wrote that one down. There's a work-around with Karma, but only for 4 programs and you need to switch modes to use the sliders.

There's always Kronos 2. Twice the polyphony etc... etc...
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Rocness · Guest

[/quote]

Yes, full control would be awesome, but with the Tone Adjust (on the Control Surface tab), you can actually the shape the sound of a Program in Combi or SEQ modes pretty substantially (*without* affecting the original program: that's very important).[/quote]

Yea , Tone adjust is great and it just works .

You know guys , I'm trying to make the Kronos something that it's not and have to appreciate Kronos for what it is right now . I just want my money's worth but I guess at the end of the day Korg made the sound of Oasys available to a wider audience of people and that in itself may be a great accomplishment for Korg .

X-Trade · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject:

I think it is less important to be negative about what isn't there, and more important to be positive about what IS.

Yeah, it would be nice to have a more flexible number of slots and ability to import more effects - perhaps at the expense of polyphony. You get what you pay for in computing power as well (no relation to money here at all btw, just an expression turned analogy), meaning that everything has a tradeoff.

A lot of programs will have a lot of useless or subtle effects that would muddy or just mess up a full song or combi anyway. Besides things like compressors and EQ I'd hardly use 16 effects in a song because it would just be a mess.

When you're building a combi, you're effectively building a song that hasn't been arranged yet - just the mix and instruments. And making music electronically is a technical process. No way simple out of that. Try making a recording of instruments and leaving the mix how it is out of the recorder and tell me that's as good as it gets. The effects in a mix of instruments need to complement eachother and sound in the same space (hence for example good practise of using reverb and delay as 'master' send effects, and actually using it for multiple instruments). The end result will sound better for this limitation because it forces you to think about it a bit more.

Of course, there could always be more slots. But equally I'd like to have the most power available in all modes. So it simply doesn't translate. At least this way you know that each mode is going to sound as good as it gets because Program mode for example isn't arbitrarily limited.
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PinkFloydDudi · Guest

Dany · Senior Member Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 352

aron · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject:

> it is possible to copy a Program in one step into a Combi, together with all the associated effects

Dany,

Yes, I understand that. What I was suggesting is that since there could be a lot of programs that use MFX too, then what if it brought over the MFX - but in the form of IFX. Since there are 12 IFX, then maybe it you could get 2 or 3 programs to sound exactly the same (using IFX instead of MFX) - it would require a new copy command - but I think it might be possible.

It was just an idea. I guess the "problem" only occurs when a program is relying on MFX for a particular effect.

Thanks!
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jerrythek · Platinum Member Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931

Forgetting about asking the system to automatically just do this all, there are many smart ways to get multiple sounds into a Combi sounding pretty close.

When you Copy From Program in the dialog box that comes up select IFXs - All Used. Then choose MFX and TFX as desired. Maybe just MFX to get started.

The only issue here is that it will still bring in the IFX12, which is always used to process the Drum Track, regardless of whether you ticked ON the Drum Track box. So you'll have to go to IFX setup and turn OFF the last IFX slot is brought over - set it to 000: No Effect.

For the second sound do this again, only choosing IFXs - All Used. This will bring in the required IFX which are the strongest "color" in the sound without disrupting the other IFX slots. Again it will bring in the Drum Track IFX which you can turn Off.

Repeat as possible until you have used up all the slots.

A previous poster is right in that not all IFX are sounding on wake-up, some are waiting to be brought in with knobs and other controllers. So you may not need them all.

There is no way for you to enjoy all the power and flexibility of the Korg "way" without looking at, and learning some about how each Program is set up. Nothing wrong with a little study time and smart decision-making.

Look at the IFX Page and the Insert FX Tab to see what is being used, then go to IFX 1-12 and look at each IFX. look at the Output Wet/Dry and if it is Dry with a Source assigned with a positive value to bring the effect in, that is a "hidden" effect, currently. Listen, play and see if it's important to you. If not, go back to the Insert FX Tab and set that IFX to 000: No Effect.

In the Korg programming conventions, MFX2 is always the main Reverb, and MFX1 is mostly used for Chorus, colors, delay, or another Reverb. So not bringing in each of those will not as drastically hurt the sound as not having the IFX. You can route multiple timbres to the same Reverb for a gig and not suffer as much as when you are mixing a full song.

You can then even do what aaron was asking - you can copy an MFX to an IFX - the Copy IFX command from the upper RH allows you to choose IFX, MFX or TFX from a Program/Combi/Song and move it to anywhere you want.

Try these ideas out - learning a bit about this will show you many ways to maximize the effect usage.

jg:: · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:38 am Post subject:

Yep, what Jerry is saying is good advice, as always, and it's not too hard to get to know how things are "likely" to be arranged, from just a quick glance at the fx pages.

Unlike many keyboards, Korg does not restrict the choice of effects in the 3 differerent effects areas - Insert, Master, Total. The choice of effects is the same everywhere. So as Jerry says, you are free to copy effects Master < > Insert if you need to, but mostly, you won't need to.

Of course it's possible to run out of effects, but I repeat that in my real-world experience of building up Combis used with my DAW for song production, effects restrictions don't usually bother me.

jg::

aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:45 am Post subject:

Thanks guys! I got it. I suppose all I really have to do is work backwards and make the programs only use IFX and then I got it.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

jg:: · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:47 am Post subject:

I think in most cases, you'll find that won't be necessary.

jg::

jerrythek · Platinum Member Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931

jerrythek · Platinum Member Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931

Hey John!

aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:13 am Post subject:

>But thinking you should only work with IFX won't allow you to enjoy the benefits of sending multiple sounds into the same space with varying amounts.

Yeah I understand how it works. I was just thinking for the programs that I alter myself, I can make life a little easier for myself and use IFX for critical effects that really change the character of a program and then use the copy command to have the program sound the same.

I've been dealing with this issue for years. My first Korg was the Mono/Poly - now Korg isn't planning to add that to the Kronos are they? Wink

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Shakil · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:16 am Post subject:

Rocness:

I prefer to keep the effects of program in program mode, because bringing the effects from program to combi/song automatically will overwrite my own tweaks/settings of the effects for that particular combi/song. If I like effects of a program, I can just copy it to combi/song with few clicks...

Comparing to Virus Ti..... that's a really nice synth... but not a workstation... with Kronos... you don't even need an external DAW... just record individual tracks to the HD recorder...... You can even record a full combi on a stereo audio track... and then layer another full combi on top....... all in digital domain..

Also, remember that some engines have their own internal effects, that do not take any IFX slots.
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