Korg Forums

aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:38 am Post subject: KGE, KSC, PCG - save all

Sorry for all the beginner questions, but if I ask them, maybe it will help someone else.

I attempted to do a save all. .KGE, .KSC and .PCG files were created along with a folder with the same name as the saved file.

Here's where things went wrong. I tried to load the .PCG I believe - either that or the .KGE (the larger of the files). I chose to load the companion files. I was then presented with Clear RAM and EX's. In any case I chose the default and then hit enter.

After that I had a number of "samples not loaded".

After hitting the manual, I realized that the .KSC is the connection between samples (I think).

My question is... if I chose Save All, then Load the file back in - choosing the 2 companion files, why did some samples not load? The 2 pianos did not load and a few other string sounds - I couldn't really tell. I finally figured out that if I load the preload.ksc everything would play again.

I guess I would expect a Save All, then a load of those files would bring me back to a saved state. I think the problem is that my .KSC file is much smaller than the preload.KSC

Oh, one more thing. I notice the manual has a number of KGE, PCG, AMS without explanations of what they stand for.

Any help appreciated.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

BasariStudios · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:28 am Post subject:

Hi Aron, the KSC yes, its the connection of the Sampled but not with PCGs
but for a one BIGGER file, now, your problem is...when you SAVE ALL the
Samples get Saved too, now when you LOAD ALL the Samples try to get
Loaded back into the synth but they are actually still in as EXs, the synth
doesnt have enough free RAM and thats why you get the messages.
When you save usually do just SAVE PCG and then KGE, most of the times.
And SAVE KGE you dont really need unless you creating GEs from Scratch
or reedit and resave the internal GEs. I knwo its a bit confusing but it is not
that bad, you'll get used to it.
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
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aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject:

It is confusing. This is the first keyboard that save all doesn't save all. Why doesn't the .ksc have all of the mappings to samples for the entire machine if I choose save all? It's much smaller than the preload.ksc. I would assume it should be the same and when loaded should bring back the state of the machine.
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

RC-IA · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject:

Regarding the samples: in the save menu drop down you have to choose save sampling data and name it like the pcg file.

I take advantage of this thread to point this:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=62618

will it not be interesting if the PCG file contains the information of what EXs is loaded ?

aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject:

OK I am totally confused. I see save sampling data which creates a .KSC.

Now this seems to indicate that it will do what I want (and it does) but can anyone explain to my why Save All... doesn't create a .KSC file that saves all the links? It just doesn't make sense to me right now.

It would seem that besides Save All... I still need to choose Save Sampling Data and create a .KSC file to load ahead of time before I load my previously saved Save All files.... (at least I think).
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

X-Trade · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject:

I suppose the problem is that you let it 'clear all RAM and EXs'
point being that you told it to clear out the Expansions to make room for your samples.
EX (Expansions) are handled differently to the rest of the sampling system because they are kind of hardcoded.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject:

> EX (Expansions) are handled differently to the rest of the sampling system because they are kind of hardcoded.

Wait, so when I choose Save All... none of the EX sample links are saved? I mean, wouldn't you expect Save All... to save all data so that when you load back, it would bring the unit back to where you had saved it?

In my case, there are no user samples, so why would I want to choose Save Sample Data? This part is just not making sense to me.

I have a sneaky feeling that if I had turned the unit off (after it was wiped), the preload would load everything back... is that true?
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

X-Trade · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject:

Yes and Yes.

I'm not specifically sure about the EXs being saved because I don't have one to try it, but it sounds like that is the case from your description, and it would kind of make sense.

If there are no user samples and you're not using the sampling features then I don't see why you'd need to save sampling. Just don't do it! Wink

Similarly, you can back up PCG data, but that data will also remain on the keyboard so unless you absolutely need to ensure you restore back to a certain situation and you're not sure if you've changed something, you don't really need the PCG either.

A few acronyms for you:
PCG - Program/Combination/Global (settings) file. This is a file containing banks and global settings which you can use to backup/share/restore settings to your keyboard. Typically these are the settings that are remembered after poweroff anyway
KSF - Korg Sample Format. This is an individual sample
KMP - KeyMaP file. This is simply a table that refers to KSF's mapped across the range of the keyboard - basically a multisample or drumkit
KSC - Korg SCript. This just basically links KMP and PCG and perhaps other files together to load them all at the same time and make sure that for example your PCG's multisample slots in the programs are pointing at the KMPs in the list on the system, for example if you're loading a couple of different sample sets

You also mentioned:
AMS - Alternate Modulation Source. Very powerful. Basically you will see this in certain sections when programming. For example next to cutoff or in a section called 'cutoff mod', you will have an AMS and an Intensity. There may even be two or three of them.
Quite simply this allows you to select a 'source' to modulate the associated parameter. So in the above Cutoff Mod example, you could set the AMS Source to 'JS +Y' (Joystick Upward Motion), and set the intensity (Int) to +5, so that when you push the joystick upwards, the Cutoff value is effectively increased by 5.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

aron · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject:

>If there are no user samples and you're not using the sampling features then I don't see why you'd need to save sampling. Just don't do it!

Oh, that was my whole point. This seems to be the only way to get a KSC file that really loads everything back.

My point being that Save All... produces a useless KSC script that doesn't really load anything if you don't have user samples. It's very surprising when you try to backup by offloading Save All... files and then find out that you cannot play your keyboard after loading your Save All files. Do you see what I mean?

Try and name one keyboard that allows you to Save All, but when you load the file(s) created, produces a keyboard that doesn't make a sound in a number of places.

Thanks for the acronyms.
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

BasariStudios · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject:

X-Trade · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject:

I would have thought that would come under Global... But I can't say for certain because I'm not familiar enough with it. Hopefully someone will chime in.

Basari, I think the point he is getting at is that he would expect that 'save All' would include everything covering the state of the keyboard - including which Expansion Sample Libraries (EXs) are loaded at the time.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

Synthvalley · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject:

aron · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:37 am Post subject:

I'm not even sure. My guess would be to choose Save Sampling Data and back that file up - it should be around 250K approx. Then choose Save All... and backup those files and folders that are generated.

Now obviously this does not backup the actual samples, but I think it will restore the instrument back to where you have it.... I think.
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

sparkie · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:04 am Post subject:

I know what he is talking about as I tried experimenting around and couldnt save anything correct either. It also would play anything either.. I am starting to think their is some RAM Load error or a software routing problem myself. Pisses me off they didnt put another 2 gig ram in this thing...especially after seeing it has a slot for it. You have to be a Linux software programmer to even begin to understand it.

BasariStudios · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:29 am Post subject:

Its actually very Simple:
Save ALL:
KSC: Sampling Maping and else
KGE: All User GEs and User ONLY
PCG:
ANY selected Bank of Combi, Program, GE, Pattern, Global, DKs, Scale Tuning.
SNG: All Songs from Sequencer.
SubFolder: All KMPs and KSFs that are Loaded in RAM and RAM only.

Now on the Kronos as i said, i am confused as to whats User what RAM,
whats Preset and whats ROM.
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http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.