 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: | well, that is part of the problem, the data wheel does NOT have an axis to spin around..unlike any other knob/wheel i have ever encountered...it does not take an engineering phd to see it is a weak design concept.
as far as the abuse cos u know theory..Jahrome does not appear to me to be someone who throws his gear around, was the first here AFAIK to get a Kronos and the wheel simply fell off while scrolling...... methinks i would be kinda irritated too
and since may folks here have an engineering or logical background it is clear that the data wheel actually |
Oh sure....no argument. my comments in no way reflect upon jahrome. He's just an innocent victim of an unfortunate circumstance. He got a bum unit (not to pick on his KRONOS...but if the data wheel fell off from normal use....that's a bum unit). Not sure I follow you about it not spinning on its axis. It rotates in a clockwise motion around a center axis point. I'm quite sure mine does, anyways. And to be fair, I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. You don't need to have a degree in engineering to contemplate perhaps a different design that might in fact be better. But here's the thing. Even THAT design...whatever it is....would, in the real world, have a certain percentage of units which had a flawed implementation of THAT design. And to THOSE consumers who randomly got THOSE units.....they would say the same thing. Only time can tell whether there is a SIGNIFICANT percentage of data wheel problems. There may be....I can't know....but people pulling data wheels off in an effort to "test" the issue, is not necessarily indicative of a design problem. Because it wasn't designed to be manipulated in this way. If you look back to jahromes original post where he first reported this issue, even he reported that he gets a little intense on the data wheel (paraphrasing). Not to say he did anything to contribute to his problem here. But whose to say.....his definition of normal and yours (and KORGs) may be two different things. Time will tell whether the average normal use for the typical consumer yields a problem of significance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Teh Mick
Full Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 131
Location: Montreal, Quebec
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2 Days in a row, playing the KRONOS at GC. |
|
|
| Sina172 wrote: |
I don't even miss the pads. At all. I LIKE the fact that there are no pads. Because it forces you to actually PLAY the keys instead of hitting a bunch of pads to make a sound. The OASYS pads are very distracting to me at times so it's a BIG advantage to me not having physical pads on the KRONOS.
|
I agree. On my Karma, I only use the 4 pads to trigger chords when playing the factory combi to drive KARMA.
_________________
Korg Kronos 61
Korg Karma
Korg Radias
Roland JD-990
Novation Remote SL Compact |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mystic38
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 266
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
well Korg have (to their credit) admitted an issue and will provide free replacements for affected users..
my reference to lack of axis is that normally a knob/wheel spins around a shaft (the centre axis point your refer)....
in the case of the K there is no underlying shaft or axis to rotate around and the wheel sits in a well relying on support at four quadrants and rotating like a ring in a sleeve.. the weakness in this type of design is that it lacks mechanical rigidity so, as off centre mechanical forces are not counterbalanced by a shaft up the centre of the knob i see it as a weak design... ok boring stuff...lol
| RonF wrote: | | Quote: | well, that is part of the problem, the data wheel does NOT have an axis to spin around..unlike any other knob/wheel i have ever encountered...it does not take an engineering phd to see it is a weak design concept.
as far as the abuse cos u know theory..Jahrome does not appear to me to be someone who throws his gear around, was the first here AFAIK to get a Kronos and the wheel simply fell off while scrolling...... methinks i would be kinda irritated too
and since may folks here have an engineering or logical background it is clear that the data wheel actually |
Oh sure....no argument. my comments in no way reflect upon jahrome. He's just an innocent victim of an unfortunate circumstance. He got a bum unit (not to pick on his KRONOS...but if the data wheel fell off from normal use....that's a bum unit). Not sure I follow you about it not spinning on its axis. It rotates in a clockwise motion around a center axis point. I'm quite sure mine does, anyways. And to be fair, I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. You don't need to have a degree in engineering to contemplate perhaps a different design that might in fact be better. But here's the thing. Even THAT design...whatever it is....would, in the real world, have a certain percentage of units which had a flawed implementation of THAT design. And to THOSE consumers who randomly got THOSE units.....they would say the same thing. Only time can tell whether there is a SIGNIFICANT percentage of data wheel problems. There may be....I can't know....but people pulling data wheels off in an effort to "test" the issue, is not necessarily indicative of a design problem. Because it wasn't designed to be manipulated in this way. If you look back to jahromes original post where he first reported this issue, even he reported that he gets a little intense on the data wheel (paraphrasing). Not to say he did anything to contribute to his problem here. But whose to say.....his definition of normal and yours (and KORGs) may be two different things. Time will tell whether the average normal use for the typical consumer yields a problem of significance. |
_________________
Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jahrome
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 378
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RonF wrote: | | Quote: | well, that is part of the problem, the data wheel does NOT have an axis to spin around..unlike any other knob/wheel i have ever encountered...it does not take an engineering phd to see it is a weak design concept.
as far as the abuse cos u know theory..Jahrome does not appear to me to be someone who throws his gear around, was the first here AFAIK to get a Kronos and the wheel simply fell off while scrolling...... methinks i would be kinda irritated too
and since may folks here have an engineering or logical background it is clear that the data wheel actually |
Oh sure....no argument. my comments in no way reflect upon jahrome. He's just an innocent victim of an unfortunate circumstance. He got a bum unit (not to pick on his KRONOS...but if the data wheel fell off from normal use....that's a bum unit). Not sure I follow you about it not spinning on its axis. It rotates in a clockwise motion around a center axis point. I'm quite sure mine does, anyways. And to be fair, I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. You don't need to have a degree in engineering to contemplate perhaps a different design that might in fact be better. But here's the thing. Even THAT design...whatever it is....would, in the real world, have a certain percentage of units which had a flawed implementation of THAT design. And to THOSE consumers who randomly got THOSE units.....they would say the same thing. Only time can tell whether there is a SIGNIFICANT percentage of data wheel problems. There may be....I can't know....but people pulling data wheels off in an effort to "test" the issue, is not necessarily indicative of a design problem. Because it wasn't designed to be manipulated in this way. If you look back to jahromes original post where he first reported this issue, even he reported that he gets a little intense on the data wheel (paraphrasing). Not to say he did anything to contribute to his problem here. But whose to say.....his definition of normal and yours (and KORGs) may be two different things. Time will tell whether the average normal use for the typical consumer yields a problem of significance. |
I addressed this in the other threads regarding this topic. The "little intense" you refer too is the same method I have used with the Korg Triton, Motif, Fantom X/G, MPC 1000, MPC 2000, MPC 2000XL, MPC 2500, MPC 3000, MPC 4000, MPC 5000...getting the point? Its not one Kronos I have a problem with. Its two. Each purchased from a dealer in two different countries. Both of them designed exactly the same. Since you are guessing and speculating...I am guessing that you don't use the sample editor or data wheel much. Have you ever use the data wheel of a Korg Triton Studio? Its far superior to the Kronos.
_________________
Tool box: Kronos 61, Fantom FA06, ASR-10, MPCX, MPC Live, and MPC 4000. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| For the record....I have a Triton Studio, and a Motif XS, Fantom X and G, MPC 1000 and 2500 and 5000....and now a KRONOS, and many more. IMO, the data wheel is fine on the Kronos. I do think the finger dimple is a superior design for any data wheel....and I miss that on the Kronos. But as far as build quality, or overall functional design....I think its fine as compared to those others. Granted, I didn't have my wheel fall off (and I have not and will not pull on the thing just to check and see).....so I get why you have a strong feeling about it. Sure I've used the sample editor....I understand the number of wheel rotations you need to scroll through a zoomed waveform. No way for any of us to quantify how your style of using the wheel compares to the average. But its your style...so I totally get the point you are making as compared to other equipment you have owned. You might not be the "average user" in this regard, however. Either way....I understand your frustration with it, and I sincerely wish for you to get it fixed asap in a totally satisfactory manner. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PinkFloydDudi
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kbrkr wrote: |
Kronos has a LOT of catching up to do; the Motif is on the back and frontline of almost every tour and worship stage in the country and has outsold almost every other keyboard in the market for years. It is a GO TO keyboard for most performers. Remember, there is a reason for this.
Good, healthy competition is great for all of us!!! |
Kronos hasn't even been released yet...of course it isn't on tours. For live performance, setlist mode and SST immediately give it a huge advantage over the competition.
Also, to equate your example - LOTS of people buy Britney Spears CDs...doesn't mean she is any good.
Prior to the Kronos, I would likely say the motif was the best all-around performance keyboard...to the point that I ended up getting a rack motif es. But there is just too much that Kronos has that those doesn't.
I would be shocked if I didn't see a majority of touring musicians using the Kronos in the next 2-3 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aron
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 1548
Location: Hawaii
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting...
> the finger dimple is a superior design for any data wheel
It doesn't have one, although it does have raised points on the top edge. However it has ribbed sides, which if you turn it with your fingers on the side, it cannot pop out.
>For live performance, setlist mode and SST immediately give it a huge advantage over the competition.
Set list mode is very similar (although more graphical) to Master mode on the Motif and QA Mode on the Kurzweil. SST is pretty much similar to the Kurzweil.
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| aron wrote: | Interesting...
> the finger dimple is a superior design for any data wheel
It doesn't have one, although it does have raised points on the top edge. However it has ribbed sides, which if you turn it with your fingers on the side, it cannot pop out. |
Forgive me if I wasn't clear....I was saying that I agree with jahrome that the finger dimple is a design feature of the data wheel on the Triton Studio (and M3 and others) that I think is superior...."and I miss it on the KRONOS". But I think the KRONOS wheel is fine in every other way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aron
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 1548
Location: Hawaii
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RonF,
I know - sorry if I came across that way. I was just thinking that maybe the ribbed sides gave us some kind of indication that maybe they wanted us to turn the wheel by holding the sizes and not try to flick it dimple style.
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gotcha....no worries aron....and I think you are correct. For me anyways, its a better way to rapidly spin the wheel, from the side, rather than round and round from the top. However, if you are already used to the finger dimple thing....then that might be counter-intuitive...but with a little rethinking....its quite easy and effective that way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
