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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:15 am Post subject: |
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I'm really not familiar with the Gaia, but if you don't like the Roland sound, I'm not sure that the JP80 is going to change your mind on that. Scott told me that the VA in the JP is Roland's most powerful synth ever. I asked him if that included the V-synth GT. Obviously the V does things on the sampling and vocoder end that the Jupiter does not, but he said outside of those differences, the JP engine is definitely more advanced. In what aspects, I'm not sure.
I just got home and will spend more time with the Jupiter tonight. In the short time that I have had it, I have had so much fun playing it, I haven't really gone into all the editing as I'm sure many of you would.
The Jupiter definitely isn't going to give you all the tools of the Korg engines, but if you like the sounds that the V created, I can't see you not liking the sounds on the Jupiter.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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Chriskk
Senior Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Are you saying that they rely on PCM for the JP8 replications??? I would have assumed that the VA section would have done that.
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The VA section of the JP-80 can use additional PCM waves like the Korg Radias.
I don't think the basic analog waveforms (saw, pulse, etc.) are PCM. The JP-80 can reshape the basic analog waves and does PWM. I'm not sure if you can do those things with PCM samples.
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McHale wrote:
> The SoS review tested a JP-80 and a JP-8 side by side and he couldn't tell the difference
And if he says he couldn't tell the difference, he was either on crack or was told to say that in the review.
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Did you read the review? Don't be so self-centered. The reviewer actually complained that Roland wouldn't share some key information with him for the review. |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Chriskk wrote: | I'm not sure if you can do those things with PCM samples.
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On a Kurzweil, you can PWM any sample, except a sine wave.  |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| EvilDragon wrote: | | Chriskk wrote: | I'm not sure if you can do those things with PCM samples.
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On a Kurzweil, you can PWM any sample, except a sine wave. |
Just messing around right now, it appears you can.
I'm not sure which factory patches use the PCM. As I mentioned before they are the 8th category. The SOS reviewer mentions there are 380 of them and that some contain classic JP80 sounds.
The layout on the Roland screen is much easier to use than the Kronos. Combined with the rock solid dial, it is a vey different experience than working with the Kronos screen and dial.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64
Last edited by Bruce Lychee on Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Chriskk wrote: | | Did you read the review? Don't be so self-centered. The reviewer actually complained that Roland wouldn't share some key information with him for the review. |
1. How is my comment self centered? Did you just look for a random adjective to insert there?
2. Did you actually do any ACTUAL research on the JP80 or did you just go off of the review? Roland won't share "key" information because it's so disappointing or just rehashed... again.
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| McHale wrote: | | Roland won't share "key" information because it's so disappointing or just rehashed... again. |
That could be the reason, or maybe they feel it is important to protect "key" information. I don't think it is reasonable to jump to any conclusions either way. Scott shared more with me than the SOS reviewer seemed to get via email inquiry.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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2 more shots:
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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WorknMan
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Man, I wish the screen was that big on the real synth heh |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| WorknMan wrote: | | Man, I wish the screen was that big on the real synth heh |
It really doesn't need to be. I don't think the Kronos screen needs to be any bigger either, but the GUI on the Kronos could take some serious pointers from Roland. It might take some time and resources but I think Korg should really put some effort to revise that area. Wishful thinking perhaps.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I found my way into the Kronos menu structure within one or two weeks, after years of using the Roland editing structures. If anything, this indicates that the Kronos menu structure is well useable.
The JP80 layout is more colourful, and to me not even in a convincing way. I just fail to see any big advantage of one layout over the other. You can work with both - you just get much more to work with in the Kronos, because it offers so much more for sound shaping and editing than a JP 80.  |
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Bruce Lychee
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Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | I found my way into the Kronos menu structure within one or two weeks, after years of using the Roland editing structures. If anything, this indicates that the Kronos menu structure is well useable.
The JP80 layout is more colourful, and to me not even in a convincing way. I just fail to see any big advantage of one layout over the other. You can work with both - you just get much more to work with in the Kronos, because it offers so much more for sound shaping and editing than a JP 80. |
I have no issue with the structure. But to put it frankly, the Kronos GUI looks like it was designed 5 years ago and that's being kind. Some things could have been a little more thoughtfully designed. Couple that with the dial from K-mart and it doesn't quite make for the best working experience, especially for a workstation.
The Kronos has many more synth engines, but the GUI of any given one doesn't need to be more complicated than the Jupiter GUI.
I am very happy with my Kronos, but IMO it falls short of being the perfect workstation because of compromises in materials and a working interface that could use some improvement. The sounds make it worth it, but perhaps another $500 on the price tag would have allowed for a higher standard in some manufacturing and design areas.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I agree on the data wheel quality, though I haven't had any problems so far.
Concerning the synth engines, the Jupiter VA isn't remotely as powerful and sophisticated as for example AL-1, and in most other areas the Kronos also has HUGE tweaking power in advance over the JP-80.
But I guess, besides the from my view weird and EXREMELY limited controller surface and missing other functionality in all areas, it's exactly the price which will cause heavy problems for getting JP-80s sold. Even people who like it tell me they won't buy it for that reason.
Some people who happen to like the preset sounds will buy it, but I don't expect too much more to happen. |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | I agree on the data wheel quality, though I haven't had any problems so far.
Concerning the synth engines, the Jupiter VA isn't remotely as powerful and sophisticated as for example AL-1, and in most other areas the Kronos also has HUGE tweaking power in advance over the JP-80.
But I guess, besides the from my view weird and EXREMELY limited controller surface and missing other functionality in all areas, it's exactly the price which will cause heavy problems for getting JP-80s sold. Even people who like it tell me they won't buy it for that reason.
Some people who happen to like the preset sounds will buy it, but I don't expect too much more to happen. |
I think you are selling the VA short. Between the V and the Jupiter, I think I can get sounds that are very different from the Korg and excellent in their own right.
The price may deter people but if the Kronos was built to the Jupiter's manufacturing and design standards, perhaps we would be looking at an OASYS 2 rather than Kronos. Today's market may not support that kind of pricing but I think the Kronos took the concept of value a bit too far.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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aron
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 1548
Location: Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: |
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I just don't get the data wheel problem. It works, what more do you need? I'm using every day without any problems.
The UI of the Kronos doesn't look any older than any other UI - except maybe the lack of color on the Jupiter.
Show me another keyboard with the graphical UI of the MS-20 or Polysix from 5 years ago.
When I was playing and editing the Jupiter VA, things were just as small to select. Look at the pictures you posted; there is a lot of unused space - things could be even bigger.
Yes, the Jupiter has a ridiculously huge data wheel, but I turn mine on the Kronos and it works. I don't need it to be metal. I'm glad the Kronos is 3 or 4 pounds lighter than my PC3. It's one of the reasons I don't carry around an XF - just ridiculous size and weight.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad. |
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Mystic38
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 266
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:55 am Post subject: |
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There is no connection to the Gaia.. Gaia uses PCM samples as the "oscillator" whereas the JP80 has true modeled oscillator sources.. And that's from Dan Krishner
| McHale wrote: | | jg:: wrote: | Are you saying that they rely on PCM for the JP8 replications??? I would have assumed that the VA section would have done that.
jg:: |
nope. the "VA" is on par with the Gaia so they have to rely on PCM. THAT'S why it could never truly replicate the JP8. |
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Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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