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EnjoyRC
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 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject: L(Mono) / Right PA Hookups |
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A bit off topic, but I know there's a lot of talent and experience in this forum. Just wanting a bit of feedback on something.
All my Korg products have intelligent outputs. If you only plug a 1/4" plug into the Left output, the keyboard and the stereo effects will be collapsed into a MONO signal. If you plug a 1/4" plug into each Left and Right outputs, the keyboard keeps the 2 channels separate.
What do you do with other synths when connecting to MONO PA systems? Synths like Access Virus TI, Novation UltraNova. They don't seem to collapse the signals.
Thanx in advance for the advice.
DeLo
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michelkeijzers
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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My first synth was a non Korg (Kawai K4).
What you can do is:
- use a small keyboard mixer and mix the left/right outputs into one mono channel
- route both channels to the main mixer (so through the multi cable) and let the main mixer mix them into one mono
- don't know if an Y plug would work (it would work but is not a very good solution)
Btw, I pan my left/right 100% left and 100% right, but I never set programs completely left or right, because most people in an audience are in a perfect spot, actually they might be standing right in front of the left or right speaker and would miss half of the sounds. The only exception is when I have a sound consisting of multiple programs that sound very similar (i.e. two layered programs making up e.g. a string sound).
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EnjoyRC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I always heard that Y plugs were not desirable.
With the number of keyboards I utilize sometimes, it would really increase the number of channels needed if I send all left's and right's to the main front of house.
Sound tech prefers that I don't premix my keys in a mixer before sending to him. That way if one keyboard is a bit louder than the others, he can adjust it.
I've searched for a small adapter type box that would merge stereo 1/4" to mono 1/4". Not finding.
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michelkeijzers
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| EnjoyRC wrote: | I always heard that Y plugs were not desirable.
With the number of keyboards I utilize sometimes, it would really increase the number of channels needed if I send all left's and right's to the main front of house.
Sound tech prefers that I don't premix my keys in a mixer before sending to him. That way if one keyboard is a bit louder than the others, he can adjust it.
I've searched for a small adapter type box that would merge stereo 1/4" to mono 1/4". Not finding. |
I wonder why you want to play mono? Some programs and almost any effects make use of stereo and it makes the sound much less cluttered and dull.
I personally think it's not a problem to make a sub mix. However, you are responsible for keeping the volumes balanced between your keyboards since you mix them yourself. I assume you know what the balance should be and since you hear all your keyboards from the same speakers I think you can better judge what the balance should be than the mixer. Besides, it's not suppose to change depending on the venue.
The only reason for differ from this is when you use e.g. a leslie that is located on different places each time.
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EnjoyRC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Oh... believe me. I wish everything was STEREO. Not my choice for the mains to be MONO. I absolutely love the sound of keyboards in stereo.
But the other night I was using a pad and noticed in my in-ears that it was fading IN and OUT. I learned that it was panning left to right slowly due to only the LEFT channel connected.
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michelkeijzers
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EnjoyRC wrote: | Oh... believe me. I wish everything was STEREO. Not my choice for the mains to be MONO. I absolutely love the sound of keyboards in stereo.
But the other night I was using a pad and noticed in my in-ears that it was fading IN and OUT. I learned that it was panning left to right slowly due to only the LEFT channel connected. |
Ok clear (luckily you like stereo like anybody).
To make sure you have a usable sub mix for the mixer:
- Make sure all patches (programs/combis) you use on your keyboards are balanced with each other, not only during one song but during the complete set(s).
- Make sure you have the volumes of all keyboards fixed and do not change it during a set (unless you use it for fade in/out or soloing temporarily).
- Try to balance it while rehearsing with the band; I noticed that when I make a balance at home and then go to the rehearsal room the balance can be much different, because other instruments take their frequency ranges in the complete mix.
- Keep the volume equal in total during the sets.
This way I think you can save the mixer a lot of work and still have your perfect submix given to him.
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BillW
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: | | I wonder why you want to play mono? Some programs and almost any effects make use of stereo and it makes the sound much less cluttered and dull. |
It's pretty much a requirement for playing live.
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jeebustrain
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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back when I was gigging as a keyboard player, I would run all of my boards/modules stereo into a line mixer, and then output that stereo into a dbx compressor - I would generally "tune to the room" with that, but if I ended up going someplace that would only accept a mono feed, I would just hit the mono bridge button and give them that.
Not a perfect solution, but it worked.
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michelkeijzers
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jeebustrain wrote: | back when I was gigging as a keyboard player, I would run all of my boards/modules stereo into a line mixer, and then output that stereo into a dbx compressor - I would generally "tune to the room" with that, but if I ended up going someplace that would only accept a mono feed, I would just hit the mono bridge button and give them that.
Not a perfect solution, but it worked. |
I think it's a quite perfect solution.
In my case I'm using only 1 keyboard (where sound comes from), so that's easy. My monitors forward the signal to the main PA so if I need to play mono they have to do it at the main mixer otherwise I should unplug one channel leaving one monitor unused.
When I have a Kronos I'm planning to run one synth into the Kronos (via the sampler inputs) making an extra mixer unnecessary. Hope it is possible per combi to change the sample input level.
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BillW
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jeebustrain wrote: | back when I was gigging as a keyboard player, I would run all of my boards/modules stereo into a line mixer, and then output that stereo into a dbx compressor - I would generally "tune to the room" with that, but if I ended up going someplace that would only accept a mono feed, I would just hit the mono bridge button and give them that.
Not a perfect solution, but it worked. |
Yeah, it's frustrating to be a gigging keyboardist. All of my sounds are a lot better in stereo but most sound guys don't know what to do with L/R feeds.
The last 3 times I ran L/R to the board, I saw this when I went back there and looked at the board:
Gig 1: Both keyboard channels unpanned (straight up)
Gig 2: Both keyboard channels unpanned (straight up)
Gig 3: L channel straight up, R channel hard right, aux sends on both channels through a compressor to remove all dynamics and hard limit the keyboard signal so that the volume never changes. The compressor had such a long release that I thought my sustain pedal was stuck. 
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jeebustrain
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: |
When I have a Kronos I'm planning to run one synth into the Kronos (via the sampler inputs) making an extra mixer unnecessary. Hope it is possible per combi to change the sample input level. |
that's what I'm hoping as well. I also would be ecstatic if there was a way to output other audio from my laptop (say from a soft synth) into the kronos via USB and use Kronos as a big mixer.
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PinkFloydDudi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BillW wrote: | | michelkeijzers wrote: | | I wonder why you want to play mono? Some programs and almost any effects make use of stereo and it makes the sound much less cluttered and dull. |
It's pretty much a requirement for playing live. |
+1 to that.
I used to bother with the L/R all the time. I then started asking sound techs before the show whether they ran a stereo or mono system.
I'd say about 80% of the time it was mono.
(Just think, what average sound techs are going to double their amp/effects rig for what they see as a rather small improvement?) |
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EnjoyRC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I primarily want to run 1 MONO line per keyboard to the front of house. I know Y cables/adapters are frowned upon. Any passive or active electronics that merge the two channels?
My Hammond, Korg M3, MS2000, Ableton Live output, all have MONO outs. It's more about the Virus and UltraNova. I'd love to MONO their outputs.
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EnjoyRC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Found it... this nicely merges 2 signals to one and provides a DI to the front of house. Strangely enough, I already used Radial DIs for everything.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JDI
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BillW
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I was hunting all over the place for a link to that device...looks like you beat me to it. That would work perfectly.
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