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Comparison of SGX and CP1, EP1 and SV-1?

 
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Comparison of SGX and CP1, EP1 and SV-1? Reply with quote

Is anyone in a position to offer experienced comparisons between:

SGX and Yamaha CP1 (and perhaps OASYS EXs2 also)

EP1 and SV-1

I'm not looking for a rivalry type comparions based on taste or manufacturer preference; but a balanced A/B comparison of the overall quality of SGX with CP1 and and EP1 with SV-1.

And if you don't mind - please don't post with opinions - I'm only looking for the thoughts from anyone who has genuinely played the models mentioned. Also I'm not looking for comparisons to Nord, Kurzweil, Motif or Roland Pianos - just the models mentioned above.

I ask because, as an OASYS owner, a primary motivation (but not the only one) to buying Kronos is for its pianos (and I have been considering the SV-1 and CP1 too). There is no Kronos in Dublin so I can't check.


Thanks,
Kevin.
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Bruce Lychee
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just sold my CP1 the other day. I am primarily a piano player.

IMO, the piano sounds on the Kronos are better than the CP1. With the CP1 you are pretty much working with variations of the Yamaha piano sound and Yamaha might be a little behind the game when it comes to issues like looping. The CP1, however, does sound great on stage.

The CP1 has an amazing EP section, especially if you are looking for Rhodes, DX7 or CP80 sounds. It also has superior materials and build quality. I don't the ink RH3 action is as refined as the CP1 action either. Personally, I feel the CP1 seems designed more around the EP section than AP.

If you are solely looking for something with great piano sounds I would strongly consider something like the Roland 700NX. Great action and great acoustic piano sounds. Not that crazy about the rest of the board, but it is a great board for piano players and is reasonably priced.
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Kontrol49
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't vouch for the Kronos,but the Pianos of the Oasys are very similar to the SV1,although personal preference is the SV1 for me.I use the Pianos for composing and because the SV is a hands on instrument aimed for playing rather than as an editors machine(although the software editor will give you more flexibility)I always go to it for writing both from a playing perspective and composing one but hear little difference in the sounds when I hear older oasys pianos compositions I've done,but I never get anal over the A/B anyway.

You may be better to opt for a 73 note Kronos if your after the playing experience as much as the sounds,because with the SV1 its all about the interface and immediacy,but you won't get such deep editing with the SV as you perhaps will with the Kronos without the software,although suspect this is limited compared to the Kronos options.

The RH3 action I really like but its not to everyones taste,as you'll see various comments about it within this forum.

Giving an A/B comparion without being critical is a personal thing so you really need to try those out and make up your own mind,I have no desire for The Kronos,as the Oasys takes care of the Most part of it,and with the SV1 in tow,have pretty much all areas covered,hearing the examples of the sounds from the Kronos demos of the respective engines there seems little difference in the sound of those on the SV

Your going to be hard pressed to find a comparison without someone giving personal preferences,I bought the SV without a hands on demo,but it was more for playing/Giggability than the sounds per se,given it has limited sounds anyway but certainly not been dissapointed with it whatsoever either soundwise or playing its a wonderful machine,and I kind of feel Its gives me along with the Oasys everything the kronos has..


so you need to demo them all and decide for yourself,and ask Which one is going to give you the best of both worlds...
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JPWC
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the beginning I was not too impressed with the piano or electric piano sounds from the Kronos. But, then after playing with the velocity sensitivity on the Kronos, wow it sounds great definently a more preferable sound than the SV1, which I also own.

I have developed a very light touch after years of performing on synths, and here again the SV1 is a weighted touch and I may not be getting the full dynamic range out of it.

My point is that sound quality is very subjective and without considerations to the performance style, well it just may not be good assessment.
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Bruce Lychee
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing the two side by side in store, the pianos on the Kronos sounded much better to me than those on the SV1. The EPs sounded great on both. I had considered buying a SV1 at one time, but was not too happy with the piano sounds.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned two SV-1s now. The first one I sold last August after about 6 weeks and a dozen gigs. I'm mainly a Jazz pianist and the pianos weren't doing it for me at all. After Korg released the soundpack 2 sounds , I took another chance on the SV1 and in April traded a pair of recordings mics I wasn't using to a friend for his barely used SV-1 88. I loaded the SP2 sounds in and used it on about 6 gigs . I do mostly Jazz trio stuff with some Rnb/Funk things too. The sound was better on the new SP2 SV-1 APs but that immediacy of sound to action connection I get with my CP5 still wasn't there. Luckily my friend took the SV1 back...that's what friends are for. Wink

I haven't even played the 61 Kronos much less the 73/88 so I can't comment on the pianos except on what I've heard from the vids like everyone else.

I haven't pre-ordered simply because I'm very leery of the RH3 action for me. I was told that RH3 action is very dated now. It was originally used in the old Technics DPs which are not out of business. So in that respect it's way behind the curve of Yamaha, Kawai and Roland. The CP5 still to me is the most responsive DP for playing Jazz, single note lines and chord voicings particular to that genre.

On the other hand the new Kronos pianos sound to me have more character or color then my CP5--that's kinda what I'm looking for. Only playing the 73/88 a few times will tell me if the RH3 action will be a sticking point.

Who knows, I might just get the Roland 700NX to alternate with my CP5 for a different flavor.
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Bruce Lychee
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Ferris wrote:
I've owned two SV-1s now. The first one I sold last August after about 6 weeks and a dozen gigs. I'm mainly a Jazz pianist and the pianos weren't doing it for me at all. After Korg released the soundpack 2 sounds , I took another chance on the SV1 and in April traded a pair of recordings mics I wasn't using to a friend for his barely used SV-1 88. I loaded the SP2 sounds in and used it on about 6 gigs . I do mostly Jazz trio stuff with some Rnb/Funk things too. The sound was better on the new SP2 SV-1 APs but that immediacy of sound to action connection I get with my CP5 still wasn't there. Luckily my friend took the SV1 back...that's what friends are for. Wink

I haven't even played the 61 Kronos much less the 73/88 so I can't comment on the pianos except on what I've heard from the vids like everyone else.

I haven't pre-ordered simply because I'm very leery of the RH3 action for me. I was told that RH3 action is very dated now. It was originally used in the old Technics DPs which are not out of business. So in that respect it's way behind the curve of Yamaha, Kawai and Roland. The CP5 still to me is the most responsive DP for playing Jazz, single note lines and chord voicings particular to that genre.

On the other hand the new Kronos pianos sound to me have more character or color then my CP5--that's kinda what I'm looking for. Only playing the 73/88 a few times will tell me if the RH3 action will be a sticking point.

Who knows, I might just get the Roland 700NX to alternate with my CP5 for a different flavor.



I think the CP5 is really a top notch board for a live jazz player like you Dave. I wouldn't switch from it. I'm really going to miss the CP1 action. The RH3 is acceptable, but not comparable IMO. Of course, I have only tried it on the SV1.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the _very_ informative replies - this is really very valuable.

So it looks like the Kronos pianos sound great, but perhaps as a stage piano is a little behind the CP1/5 because of the keybed. Very interesting. And the CP1 and 5 apparently have an excellent CP80 on board too (I'm a huge fan of the CP80). We really are spoilt for choice these days!!

Thanks once again.
Kevin.
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One negative about the CP-1 is that the Wurlies are flawed. There is no pianissimo. Yamaha has provided an update for the CP-5/CP-50 but I have not seen one for the CP-1. It took them over a year to address this and it's a well known issue.

I used to own the CP-1. To me the CP-5 is the one to own. There is not enough difference in the sound department vs. the CP-1 and the CP-1 is twice the price. The only thing you're really giving up is the FM pianos of which there are only four variations.

The action on the Yamahas is definitely one of the reasons to own it.

The thing about the SV-1 is that the EPs are jumpy where as they respond in a linear fashion on both the Kronos and CPs. The EP-1 Rhodes have a huge dynamic range (if properly programmed), like the real thing. It's very hard for me to go back to sampled EPs after the Kronos. Even the 8 velocity layer ones in the Extras feel dead in contrast.

I really like the depth of the programmability with the Kronos. I've been able to get sounds that I never would have been able to with the stage pianos.

Busch.
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synthguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busch, you always make me feel like liver left on a hot summer highway for not having a Kronos yet. Good grief... I'm not wanting for instruments, but I am SERIOUSLY wanting a Kronos. Razz

It's definitely the synthesist's dream machine. How can anyone deny that? And how can I deny my lust much longer?

Can a guy live on dirt for a few weeks? Just curious...
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DaveK



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: SGX-1 and EP-1 Stretch Tuning Reply with quote

I don't have a Kronos yet, but I am very tempted!

I have just watched a video by Bellevue American Music of the Kronos in which the demonstrator played the German Grand along with a pad sound with high-pitched arpeggiated synth notes. Because of the stretch tuning of the piano samples, the high piano notes sounded awfully sharp in pitch compared to the synth notes. I was just wondering if it is possible to change the amount of stretch tuning for the acoustic and electric piano sounds in the Kronos (this can be done in the Roland keyboards I have). I have looked in the Parameter Guide but can't immediately see a setting.

Combining stretch-tuned pianos with non-stretch-tuned synths can sometimes be problematic if both of the parts play high notes.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a pitch stretch parameter in the HD-1 engine - but not sure if it applies to SGX or EP1.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthguy wrote:
Can a guy live on dirt for a few weeks? Just curious...

Im not sure about dirt/soil but certainly grubs and worms you can find them digging down a little around roots of trees and plants, very nutritious!.. Laughing
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