Korg Forums

[DaveK]

I've just listened to the following demo on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtEwLLQm-M

The demonstrator plays the Rhodes Mk1 at 0:27 and it's the first time I have heard the whole range of notes (I don't yet have a Kronos!). It seems clear to me from this demo that the hard bell sound is present in all the treble notes from about the B-flat a 7th above middle C upwards. According to taste, a person may or may not like this aspect of the Kronos' Mk1 sound, but I would prefer it to be less pronounced, as I think others on this forum would as well. As a Program can consist of two EXi's, I was just wondering if anyone had tried using the lower notes from the Mk1 combined with the upper notes from another Rhodes model - say the Mk2 or Mk5? These models seem to have less hard bell in the treble notes. Of course, it may not be possible to pick a transition point where the change in tone from one model to the next is smooth.

It's strange, but I had exactly the same thoughts when I tried out the Nord Electro 3 a few years ago - it seemed that I could have got the perfect Rhodes sound (or my idea of this!) if I could combine the bass notes of the Mark 1 with the Treble notes of the Mark 5. Unfortunately the Electro is not multitimbral, so this can't be done.

Maybe other Forum members who have experimented with the EP-1 engine have discovered other ways to tweak the Rhodes sounds successfully - it would be interesting to read about these.

I have this memory of my "ideal" Rhodes sound which is probably the Leeds Rentals "E" model that was used on so many hits from the late 1970s and early 1980s ("She's Out Of My Life", "Mornin'", etc.). I've been trying to recreate it ever since I sold my real Rhodes over twenty years ago!

Cheers,

David Kear

[danatkorg]

[burningbusch]

You certainly can mix and match. I've found the Mk I lower with Mk II upper to be very compatible. The Mk V might be a little tougher but can work if you're not too fussy about the tone at the split point. I think the modeling makes the sounds more compatible with each other in a way that isn't possible with pure samples.

The best way to do this is to take a program that you basically like, e.g. the G. Duke Old&Funky and then copy this to the second EXi within the program. Then set your split between the two EXis. Now change the Model Type to Tine EP II and start tweaking. This way all the controls and the overal settings will be identical.

As Dan mentioned above, you can do a lot with the parameters. It's so very refreshing being able to add filters, EQs, FXs as you wish. After spending too much time with stage pianos and the like, the Kronos' power and flexibility is amazing.

Busch.

[DaveK]

Thanks to Dan and Busch for the replies - that all sounds very interesting. A few more queries and ideas:

Dan:

1. Could you explain in more detail how you use key tracking to ramp down the attack portion of the sound going from low notes to high ones. I have done this successfully with the Dyno Rhodes sound in my EMU Vintage Pro module.
2. Is it possible to make the attack noise less velocity sensitive than the harmonic element? This is how a real Rhodes behaves, in that as a note is hit harder, the bell tone gradually gets overwhelmed by the harmonic or pitched content and the note gets more growly, ending up as more of a "splat" at the highest velocities.

Busch:

1. Which split point have you found works best for Mk1 in the lower notes and Mk2 in the higher ones?
2. If you add stereo vibrato to the two EXis, are they correctly synchronised with each other? I have created a Combi Rhodes Mk1 sound in my Roland Fantom X7 using modifications of a Mk1 patch on the SRX-12 board, but the stereo vibratos I have programmed into the constituent patches are slightly out of synch with each other when I play the Combi (but only very slightly - it hardly notices and actually sounds quite "organic").

Cheers,

David Kear

[jimknopf]

Dan and Busch, I am very interested in your comments as well.

When I had some hours to spend with the Kronos, two assumtions from the demos I heard were confirmed
- the Kronos EPs are extremely well playable concerning dynamics and expression
- the modelling (maybe the sampling material as well) kind of destroys the natural character and - more important - "bite" of a well maintained real Mk I to a harmless "pling" bell sound in the factory patches. The George Duke sound is a good example: it does a very good hob in the lower and mid range, but loses all credibility in the upper range.

I had a lot of very annoying trouble here in Europe/Germany, even being able to get my long standing preorder from end of Januray changed into a normal order, and finally am waiting for my Kronos 73 to arrive end of July now.

It would be nice if some concrete information about more natural sounding alternatives to the Mk I factory patches were available then.

Busch, I have a lot of trust in your Rhodes programming since I heard how much better your Yamaha CP1 patches sounded than the original patches. Could you imagine sharing your settings, or putting one or two examples online.

And Dan, could Korg perhaps consider some patch updates of this kind from time to time for the Kronos? I'm not lazy programming myself, but I think the wheel does not have to be reinvented after useful findings like those proposed above.

[jerrythek]

[burningbusch]

Below is an audio example using a split method (all within one program). The two EXis are identical, I'm only playing with the ATTACK BRIGHTNESS parameter on the right/upper side of the split. The split is set at C5. C5 to D#5 are the notes I think most people find have too much bell tone. The lower half of the Rhodes is set to an attack brightness of +10.5, which is pretty agressive.

The audio example shows the upper split at +10.5db, +2.0db and finally -2.5db. Again the lower split is the same throughout. Below -2.5db things get a bit too much out of balance to my ear, although if the overall sound was set to something less agressive than +10.5db, you could further kill off the bell.

Kronos Attack Brightness Variations

There are a number of ways to attack this issue. I'm going to experiment more with what Jerry posted above.

Yes, of course I'll share any/all programs I come up with with the community.

Busch.

[rrricky rrrecordo]

Gotta love the "tweak it to suit" responses.

"We couldn't nail the sound... you try!"

Not bad though, and the toolbox is there.

[danatkorg]

[jerrythek]

[jimknopf]

Dan and Jerry,

your contributions, just like Busch's in this thread, are very much appreciated! So don't get any critical patch feedback wrong: even in the few hours I had with a Kronos, I heard a lot of fine sound programming put into this device.

Concerning the Rhodes sounds, Dan, I am aware of different tastes and still think what I (and others) refer to is not just a matter of taste: well maintained MK Is (yes I know with a certain variety), as I own one myself, well done samples like the Scarbee library, some famous reference artist songs etc. can serve quite well as points of comparison. My goal is not to critisize factory patches, but to get closer to what I regard as the "real deal", no matter by whom or which way.

Concerning the Duke sound, I can imagine that any time with George Duke has been a pleasure. His signature sound is no standard Mk I sound, because he uses harder hammer tips in the upper range and close pickup positions in this one. Still it's sound is well suited for our concern, because when you compare even this hard tone (with a stronger bell character), it still definitely has more bite and less "thin pling" (I don't know how to express it any better) than the Kronos rebuild. He had all reason to like what he heard up to the middle range in the Kronos patch as it is now, but I really would be curious to ask him about the upper range. My guess is that he would exactly know what we are debating here. I had a very nice short talk with him after his Leverkusen gig last year.

You can hear the same difference, just a liittle less pronounced, from a typical dry Herbie Hancock MK I sound from the Headhunters period compared to the Kronos.

Trust me, I'm solution oriented and not just picky, and I like this thread because it seems to offer some nice ways of tweaking to get there. The Kronos Rhodes sounds are so close and so much fun to play, that the upper range problem should be solved.

@Busch: now downloading your examples, thanks very much!

[rrricky rrrecordo]

Sorry jerry, it was a generic thing... lotsa guys say "tweak it" here, I wasn't addressing you personally.

[rrricky rrrecordo]

...and your post was a great one, you know your way around Kronos

[jimknopf]

@Busch:

the third variation of "The One Step" already sounded definitely more natural than the first (maybe in a mix the second would also do). I agree that more would not sound balanced.

I'm getting quite confident that we will get nice results and hoped I could begin to contribute. But I still have to wait a month (hopefully not longer).

[jerrythek]