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ScoobyDoo555
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 840
Location: Herefordshire, UK
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 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough.
My comments weren't meant to antagonise nor cause offence, but that was the impression I got (never understood exactly why this was the case tbh, as OASYS is an amazing machine), not just on here, but other forums too.
I would definitely agree that Korg fell over with regards "future-proof" guarantees. Bit fool-hardy imho, as regardless of cost, EVERYTHING get superseded at some point. 8 years is a pretty good innings regardless of how much the machine cost.
Granted, Kronos was probably started 6 years into OASYS's life, but they didn't support OASYS owners as well as they possibly could have.
But this isn't an OASYS-bashing exercise: quite the opposite in fact. I didn't buy one because I couldn't justify the expense. Kronos ticks all the boxes for me, and personally, the Set List feature is invaluable.
Dan
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Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.
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franzlp
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I tend to agree with that this is not a thread looking to bash Korg or the potential owners of any of the both platforms. As I said in my opening remarks it was my personal honest assessment and what kind of feeling I came out of the evaluation I made of Kronos. I am sure that the folks that are discovering it now will wonder and then see that the mother ship and inspiration to all this technology was the Oasys. Even Korg appears to acknowledge this little by little. We can discuss the merits of the few new synth engines and the value they add. I agree the pianos are very nice but the reality to me was how often to I care about the piano noises parameters that are now introduced on the Kronos. Well not much since it doesn't necessarily add to the character in most music. Perhaps if I play Debussy as ppp I may care, but if you pop up a you tube of the master Keith Emerson tearing through the OASYS piano playing Tarkus you will feel that the piano is is amazing with nothing to lack of. As for the EPs on the Oasys I am happy with the Oasys ones and the Karo ones for which they already did a remarkable job. For me a synth like the OASYS is much more than the sound just like when we consider the ARP2000, a Moog, Oberheim... its the sound but the character of the instrument and how it feeds-back physically to any of us. I understand the cost was prohibitive for Korg to continue making the few they made but in today's software based world there may yet still be a justification to support the software upgrade path to this wonderful instrument. Just my thoughts. |
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AnthonyB
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 755
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the review Franzip.
I'm an OASYS 88 user, and i suspect (somehow), i would feel the same if i went in a shop and tried the KRONOS. With the OASYS, you already have years getting used to the Engines in the OASYS, so with the KRONOS, the only way "up" as it were is the piano/EP, which are good on the OASYS anyway.
Also take the PADS, away, take the CD-Burner away, take the Pre-amp Mic inputs away, take the huge 10" screen away, take the superior sliders (and master) away, take the "Huge build" superiority factor away, Also lights on sliders, more outputs etc etc, then its not surprising an OASYS owner (like you fran) would come away a little "deflated". I think i would too, To be honest.
Tony
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Rocness
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| AnthonyB wrote: | Thanks for the review Franzip.
I'm an OASYS 88 user, and i suspect (somehow), i would feel the same if i went in a shop and tried the KRONOS. With the OASYS, you already have years getting used to the Engines in the OASYS, so with the KRONOS, the only way "up" as it were is the piano/EP, which are good on the OASYS anyway.
Also take the PADS, away, take the CD-Burner away, take the Pre-amp Mic inputs away, take the huge 10" screen away, take the superior sliders (and master) away, take the "Huge build" superiority factor away, Also lights on sliders, more outputs etc etc, then its not surprising an OASYS owner (like you fran) would come away a little "deflated". I think i would too, To be honest.
Tony |
Perfect statement .  |
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Rocness
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| franzlp wrote: | | I tend to agree with that this is not a thread looking to bash Korg or the potential owners of any of the both platforms. As I said in my opening remarks it was my personal honest assessment and what kind of feeling I came out of the evaluation I made of Kronos. I am sure that the folks that are discovering it now will wonder and then see that the mother ship and inspiration to all this technology was the Oasys. Even Korg appears to acknowledge this little by little. We can discuss the merits of the few new synth engines and the value they add. I agree the pianos are very nice but the reality to me was how often to I care about the piano noises parameters that are now introduced on the Kronos. Well not much since it doesn't necessarily add to the character in most music. Perhaps if I play Debussy as ppp I may care, but if you pop up a you tube of the master Keith Emerson tearing through the OASYS piano playing Tarkus you will feel that the piano is is amazing with nothing to lack of. As for the EPs on the Oasys I am happy with the Oasys ones and the Karo ones for which they already did a remarkable job. For me a synth like the OASYS is much more than the sound just like when we consider the ARP2000, a Moog, Oberheim... its the sound but the character of the instrument and how it feeds-back physically to any of us. I understand the cost was prohibitive for Korg to continue making the few they made but in today's software based world there may yet still be a justification to support the software upgrade path to this wonderful instrument. Just my thoughts. |
Strongly Agree ! |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Although I understand the sentiments of OASYS owners, I don't think the importance of the new engines can be downplayed. While some of it's utility as workstation might have been diluted by it's physical design, the Kronos pianos and EPs offer a significant sonic improvement that have made the Kronos a legitimate alternative to pure stage pianos as well. OASYS pianos might have been good enough for an Emerson run, but they aren't good enough by today's standards. As a controller centerpiece for a studio, I think I would prefer the more robust physical design of the OASYS, however as a stand alone instrument, pianos and EPs are key instruments for me and a fundamental upgrade on the Kronos over the OASYS.
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franzlp
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce,
I respectfully do not diminish your opinion with regards to your emphasis on the pianos and ep's as they regard to Kronos, but as you stated earlier on this thread you are new to Korg. Your assessment would need to be made on the basis that you've had the complete exposure to the OASYS including the capacity that augmented it with external libraries provided to it by 3rd parties such as KARO. Most of us are quite well aware of the demands that today's music often has or has not, although I would dare to surmise that Keith Emerson probably has a view as deep if not deeper on the nuanced demands of these instruments having been with Korg from the beginning of it's serious synth manufacturing timeline as well as the legacy attributed to him as a student of synthesis and the notorious demands of his keyboard skills. In a nutshell you need to have experienced both platforms to create a proper perspective that is just my thought. |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| franzlp wrote: | Bruce,
I respectfully do not diminish your opinion with regards to your emphasis on the pianos and ep's as they regard to Kronos, but as you stated earlier on this thread you are new to Korg. Your assessment would need to be made on the basis that you've had the complete exposure to the OASYS including the capacity that augmented it with external libraries provided to it by 3rd parties such as KARO. Most of us are quite well aware of the demands that today's music often has or has not, although I would dare to surmise that Keith Emerson probably has a view as deep if not deeper on the nuanced demands of these instruments having been with Korg from the beginning of it's serious synth manufacturing timeline as well as the legacy attributed to him as a student of synthesis and the notorious demands of his keyboard skills. In a nutshell you need to have experienced both platforms to create a proper perspective that is just my thought. |
So you don't think the advances in the piano and EP engines are significant over what you can get out of the OASYS? I don't have experience with the OASYS but it would seem to me that there are significant differences that would make the OASYS less favorable for a keyboard player. The Kronos pianos sound much better than anything I have heard from a Korg before, but I don't have hands on with the OASYS.
On a side note, I would have gladly paid more if they built the Kronos to the physical standards of the OASYS.
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Lychee wrote: | | the Kronos pianos and EPs offer a significant sonic improvement that have made the Kronos a legitimate alternative to pure stage pianos as well. OASYS pianos might have been good enough for an Emerson run, but they aren't good enough by today's standards. |
but what is todays standards??.
Everyone has a different preference and sound they like or dislike,for years I think Korg have been let down by the piano sounds in the workstations,the Oasys had perhaps the nicest or realistic to date for my own liking,this is subject to your own taste as well,the Extra Engine in the Kronos builds on that and perhaps melds in together the oasys and SV1 Type technology that was a competitor for the usual Stage pianos out there and I'd say the Kronos pianos aren't a million miles away from the samples inside the Oasys,just you have more modelling to mimic the sound rather than your standard filter and amp configuration to shape a sample
However you see it,having all this technology available inside one single unit is beneficial to a gigging musician,but a purist might see it as not his standards and prefer an actual one trick pony machine for those Piano standards like an actual stage piano.
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Bruce Lychee
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Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kontrol49 wrote: | | Bruce Lychee wrote: | | the Kronos pianos and EPs offer a significant sonic improvement that have made the Kronos a legitimate alternative to pure stage pianos as well. OASYS pianos might have been good enough for an Emerson run, but they aren't good enough by today's standards. |
but what is todays standards??.
Everyone has a different preference and sound they like or dislike,for years I think Korg have been let down by the piano sounds in the workstations,the Oasys had perhaps the nicest or realistic to date for my own liking,this is subject to your own taste as well,the Extra Engine in the Kronos builds on that and perhaps melds in together the oasys and SV1 Type technology that was a competitor for the usual Stage pianos out there and I'd say the Kronos pianos aren't a million miles away from the samples inside the Oasys,just you have more modelling to mimic the sound rather than your standard filter and amp configuration to shape a sample
However you see it,having all this technology available inside one single unit is beneficial to a gigging musician,but a purist might see it as not his standards and prefer an actual one trick pony machine for those Piano standards like an actual stage piano. |
I think the fact that my background is more as a piano player, my priorities are a little different. I happen to play a great acoustic every day too. I just sold my CP1 and consider the Roland SN pianos and V-piano to be among the best stage pianos. In that regard, I consider the Kronos a legitimate alternative that happens to also fill my workstation needs and gives me a bunch of other creative tools that I can use in conjunction with my other synths. There are piano guys who don't want all the extras, but the Kronos is also peaking the interest of musicians looking at stage pianos, because it offers pianos, EPs and organs that are arguably as good as anything out there, if not better. My only gripe is the RH3 action (on the SV1), which I find less refined than those offered the CP1 or Rolands.
I do understand why an OASYS owner would not like the physical changes made to the Kronos. Who wants a smaller screen, a more crowded layout, cheaper materials and less inputs? I also understand why for recording purposes, the new engines might have little practical importance because of the availability of samples and software. That being said, I do think the new engines offer something that will be important to many people who were not previously interested in the OASYS, regardless of price.
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shap
Full Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Lychee wrote: | | I do understand why an OASYS owner would not like the physical changes made to the Kronos. Who wants a smaller screen, a more crowded layout, cheaper materials and less inputs? |
It's funny how so many of these things are matters of perspective and timing. As someone who is primarily an acoustic musician I loved the build on the OASYS and the quality of its sound. The screen was great and I loved the feel and the quality of the controls. But by the time I bought it I had already committed myself to using a DAW. The main reason I returned my OASYS was that its DAW integration (notably as a control surface) wasn't working for me. Ironically, I soon came to feel dissatisfied with the Motif's control surface capabilities as well, gave up on that, bought a Mackie Control and have been pretty happy since. If I'd seen that coming in time, I might have kept the OASYS.
Probably just as well. I'm only now ready to really explore the device in its own right as a synth, and by returning the O I got to apply that money to other things that I was ready to use and explore at the time. And now I get to have fun exploring the K.
The build quality comparison that may be more interesting is between the K and the Motif XF. I have initially mixed reactions, though I see advantages in both designs. Let's see what I think after playing them side by side for a while.
Display? Well, the O was clearly a better display. But I'm watching the iPad integration that is happening now with the Motif, and I'm thinking that updating the K to do MIDI over Wireless Ethernet over USB probably wouldn't be that hard if Korg decides it's a good place to put their energy. Given the sheer flexibility, I think that some effort in that direction (that is: just enough to let third parties build iPad apps for the K) might be really interesting, and I think it would put the display issue in a different light.
Inputs? I guess I find this complaint a little tough to understand. It seems to me that most of the use scenarios for those inputs happen in the studio. At street price, the K is $4500 cheaper than the O was (that's if you don't correct for inflation). For $4500, you can buy mic preamps that are a hell of a lot better than the ones on the O ever were, and have plenty left over for a MOTU 2408mk3, which has better converters and can run at a higher sample rate. If that's not enough to solve your I/O fetish, the O wasn't going to help you either. It actually wasn't enough for me, which is why I added the 24I/O.
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franzlp
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well I guess we can all say beauty (in the musical sense) is in eye of the beholder ...
The sexy..
The beautiful...
Then you have simply perfection...
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shap
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Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| franzlp wrote: | | Then you have simply perfection... |
Yeah, it looks nice, and all. But isn't that one of the ones that does such a bad job simulating the KRONOS pianos? 
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Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
Border Collies + Misc. Squeaky Toys |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I grew up playing a Bosendorfer. Wonderful pianos. I happen to favor my Shigeru and it's sublime action, but I would never pass up an opportunity to sit down at a Bosie.
The OASYS wins the beauty contest hands down.
I would be really happy if they created an iPad interface for the Kronos. That would be ideal.
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jazlover
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Joined: 09 Jan 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Tampa, Fla USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Bosendorfer... sure they are nice but not only can they not emulate a Kronos, they have no editor software. Have you heard the guitars sounds on Bosendorfer? There are dreadfull. I never could read the screen. Don't even get me started!
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