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An Oasys owner goes to the music store and tries Kronos.
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shap
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthguy wrote:
That's nice, that Yamaha is offloading stuff to the iPad and other software developers that they should have designed into the Motif to start with....


Well, that's certainly the sour grapes view. Actually, the Yamaha-specific apps don't look real helpful to me, but I feel like you're missing the point here.

Whether it's a control surface app, or a third-party editor app, or some form of trigger pad app, or something else entirely, the important point here is that there are loads of smart people out there who will attempt to write apps if they can. They may be iPad apps or MacBook apps or PC apps. I don't really care. Most of those apps will be crap (just as they are in any other space), but a few of them will show some interesting new way to integrate or manipulate things.

A current-generation workstation isn't just something that needs to be able to integrate with a PC/Mac. It needs to be able to integrate with a fabric. That fabric might be a single computer, but it might also be a whole bunch of other synthesis devices on a performing stage. All Korg (and others) has to do to enable that is to let their machines connect to a network as first-class nodes rather than as "satellite" devices hanging off a computer.

I don't yet know what that fabric will look like in ten years. Neither does Korg. Thankfully, Korg (or Yamaha, or Roland) doesn't actually employ all of the really smart people in the music world.

And perhaps you just want to hide in your room with your synth, your monitors, and your dog. Heck - that often works for me. And maybe you'll never use your synth as part of a fabric.

But other people will, and the only way to find out what the undiscovered country looks like is to enable the people who want to explore it.
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ScoobyDoo555
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory though Laughing
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shap
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Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shap wrote:
And perhaps you just want to hide in your room with your synth, your monitors, and your dog. Heck - that often works for me.


Small bit of side humor here. I've been exploring the V-Synth GT while I wait, and there's a patch that sounds a bit like a fire siren. Border Collies aren't big singers, but I've got a Border Spaniel who often feels like the fire engines can use all the help they can get. So there he was in my basement, howling along with the V-Synth. And the other BC, who is deaf, is giving him this look, like "W.T.F.? Have you lost it?"

Almost fell off my bench. Laughing
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Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
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synthguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shap, you're a very forward thinking guy. And perceptive. A few of us such as EXer and I have been grumpy at Yamaha for playing it safe with the Motif XF, and reducing it to the world's most expensive rompler. At least that I'm aware of. Fortunately, with Kronos around, they can't back off from some kind of jump forward.

As for the iPad apps, I know that I've been giving them the cold shoulder since I started looking at them, and thought it was a bunch of musical tinker toys. The Fairlight app is interesting... sort of. But unless I'm mistaken, that library is available different places for different samplers already, of which I have a few. And it's still not going to sound the same as a IICx, as Fairlight themselves point out. Thus the new Fairlight sampler they're producing themselves.

But just sticking my tongue out at them isn't being fair to them, per se. The iPad platform is evidently a lot stronger than I gave it credit for. If they could produce a slew of audio plugins, such as classic high end Lexicon reverbs and hardware synth emulations...

Well, I still probably wouldn't buy them. Wink The Fairlight, maybe, but it depends on whether something is in the wings as far as an affordable Fairlight softsampler which also had the sonic character of the original. Not just the samples. I guess I'll google around for it at some point.

But for the most part, yes, I'm a hardware synth guy, even if they're VAs. Effects, compressors, EQs, consoles, hardware all the way. In fact, I'm giving the Allen & Heath ZED R-16 hardware firewire mixer a hard look that I'm not quite giving to the Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shap wrote:
synthguy wrote:
That's nice, that Yamaha is offloading stuff to the iPad and other software developers that they should have designed into the Motif to start with....


Well, that's certainly the sour grapes view. Actually, the Yamaha-specific apps don't look real helpful to me, but I feel like you're missing the point here.

Thankfully, Korg (or Yamaha, or Roland) doesn't actually employ all of the really smart people in the music world.

And perhaps you just want to hide in your room with your synth, your monitors, and your dog. Heck - that often works for me. And maybe you'll never use your synth as part of a fabric.



some sour grapes
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shap
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthguy wrote:
As for the iPad apps, I know that I've been giving them the cold shoulder since I started looking at them, and thought it was a bunch of musical tinker toys. The Fairlight app is interesting...

The iPad platform is evidently a lot stronger than I gave it credit for.


The iPad 2 actually has more compute capability than the Atom CPU in the KRONOS, (though it's weaker in floating point). This makes something like the Akai SynthStation49 dock or the Alesis StudioDock a little thought-provoking. I don't really think either of those will take off, but it's maybe not such a crazy way to build a keyboard at some point.

Audio over local area wired ethernet is definitely doable, but 44Khz audio over wireless ethernet (which is what a non-tethered iPad would need to use) is dicey. Too many things interfering in the spectrum, and too much jitter in the latency characteristics of WiFi to get reliable high-quality sound. So I can see iPad doing fine as a stand-alone noodling tool, but it won't be doing audio as part of a fabric unless it's tethered.

So I wasn't thinking about audio apps on iPad so much as I was thinking about apps that do clever things as controllers and/or triggers. The new twist that Ethernet introduces is the ability to build a single MIDI-like controller that can see all of the gear at once.

Just as one possibly useful example, imagine an iPad app that manages a master set list. That is: it knows what all the settings need to be on every instrument in the band. Now imagine any player being able to look at or drive that set list from any position.

The fact that the wires go from one connector to another doesn't mean we have to restrict the information or the interaction that way.
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Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shap wrote:
synthguy wrote:
As for the iPad apps, I know that I've been giving them the cold shoulder since I started looking at them, and thought it was a bunch of musical tinker toys. The Fairlight app is interesting...

The iPad platform is evidently a lot stronger than I gave it credit for.


The iPad 2 actually has more compute capability than the Atom CPU in the KRONOS, (though it's weaker in floating point).


Not sure what that's based on. From the tests below, it looks like the iPad 2 is about half as powerful in most respects, and in a few ways much worse than that. I really like iOS devices, but compute power isn't currently their strong suit.

http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/433103
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/223783
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shap
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
shap wrote:
The iPad 2 actually has more compute capability than the Atom CPU in the KRONOS, (though it's weaker in floating point).


Not sure what that's based on. From the tests below...


Apparently based on misunderstanding my ARM expert. I even think I know what I mis-translated.

There are some obvious mistakes on those reports. The A5 (iPad2) isn't running at rated speed. Number of cores reported on the Atom is wrong (should be 2 cores, 4 threads). Reported cache configurations are wrong. Reported memory bandwidth on the A5 seems surprisingly low (though it may be right). In spite of these concerns, you're still right, and thanks for pointing out the error.

I still do think that the Akai product is thought-provoking. As I said above, I doubt it will take off in the present round. But it reflects a nice bit of out-of-box thinking.
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Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
Border Collies + Misc. Squeaky Toys
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Rocness
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StephenKay wrote:
danatkorg wrote:
Rocness wrote:
Wait a minute , why in the hell did the Kronos not get Karma 3 has anybody ever thought about that .


Maybe because KARMA 3 isn't done yet?


That *is* a somewhat valid point. Laughing
Embarassed Good Point . Sorry about that . I do think it's almost time for a Karma synth tho , maybe next year or so . Wink
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