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kanout
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 67
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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the good point is that:
As a jupiter 80 user cello,you know "in use" how the chip seems well dimensionned.
(very responsive,very quick os..)
The V2 is a good evolution,it think there is a place for some other important evolutions...
I believe in the jupiter... |
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Francois
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4339
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kanout wrote: | | but you're not THE reference.. |
Of course not ! But my experience is so different from yours, that I cannot understand where you get your views from, since we probably read the same English and French forums, and we see the same people on stage, and we talk to the same resellers, etc.
Also, reading you and a few others, you'd think Jupiter 80 owners are barricaded in a bunker trying to fend the Kronos owners onslaught !
I can promise you that there is no Kronos owners conspiracy against the Jupiter 80 !
| Quote: | | and we are selling more motifs than kronos;.. |
That, I believe.
| Quote: | | i think it is better than the kronos for a beginner. You are so sure but you don't master and play the jupiter 80. |
Probably, but it's still not the best choice because it's too advanced. I still think that for a beginner, a M50, MOX or similar makes more sense.
| Quote: | | Everybody(and some of the kronos fan club )post to tell him not to take the jupiter... |
True. But you fail to mention that a few did advise him to take the J80. And nobody "bashed" those people who recommending the J80. Personally, I didn't reply to advise one or the other.
| Quote: | | You are convinced by your price theory.... |
It's not so much my price theory as to what dealers tell me. Are they wrong, are they telling me porkies ?
| Quote: | | If there was a jupiter oriented vision in your forum(where the boss is a reseller..)i think some more jupiter where being sold! |
There, I agree with you. But that would concern only a few people compared with how many units are sold worldwide. The problem of the apparent lack of sales goes much deeper than that.
And as good a machine as the J80 is, it is worrying to see it's not as successful as you think it shoud be. |
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Francois
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4339
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| kanout wrote: | | I think we are sounding different from numerous people who have the best selling machine... |
[facetious mode on]
Nah...to be really unique and sound different, you need a Solaris !
[facetious mode off] |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 2151
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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To me all these optimistic explanations about Roland and the JP80 look extremely far fetched and in part unwillingly comical.
The funny part is the sectarian circle argument structure: The JP80 must be great and there must have been a master plan behind it, no matter how weird it's concept (despite some good sounds) or it's unrealistic pricing (now met by adding ipads) looks to the majority of keyboarders. So if something looks weak about it, there must of course be a hidden strong point and a well thought Roland agenda behind it. This latter perspective alone could make a former Fantom G owner like me laugh for minutes! 
And if it sells much worse than any other big flagship synth of the last years except the big Alesis Fusion failure, it must again have been a well thought out plan by Roland to place it exactly as such a niche product, just for a few ingenuous souls, who will be thankful to use it exactly as it is, not even thinking about how much better it could have been, and instead find no better place on earth to flood people with their euphemistic JP80 views, than a Kronos user forum, for the time being. 
I have no problem naming Kronos or Korg weaknesses, while I like this synth so much. But I have a hard time finding any of that kind of realism and healthy critical views among JP80 users.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Rhodes 73 Mk I - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - KKorg Synth - Access Virus TI Keyboard |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1105
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Francois wrote: | | cello wrote: | | Just a thought - but perhaps Roland wanted it to be a niche product so priced it accordingly? |
Somehow, I doubt that. What company markets goods hoping they will only sell confidential amounts? Roland went to town when releasing the Jupiter 80, recruiting Howard Jones to say good things about it and so on.
If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I'd put my money on the Roland marketing team having their eyes bigger than their belly! |
And the biggest mistake they made was to label it "Jupiter" that's made a lot of people frown upon it,it's a cracking synth,personally for me it could sell itself if they hadn't used the name so smugly in order to perhaps seduce people,it would have been more well received if they'd just called it "V-Synth 2",for such a superb synth you would have thought they could have come up with a more imaginative name instead of trying to cash in on their legacy. |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 532
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Francois wrote: | The Jupiter 80 is just as bad a choice for beginners as the Kronos. Somebody who's buying his first keyboard should get something like an M50 or Yamaha MOX.
However, this fails to take into account that some beginners 1- have the funds. |
Yes, let's assume someone is lucky enough for the cost to not be so much of a concern. Sometimes the pricier keyboards can be better for beginners, if they can afford them. The Motif XF would be easier for a beginner to get around than a MOX. Its big screen and its faders make it easier to use than a MOX for many functions.
Whether beginner or not, there's never a single right choice, people are looking to do different things. But let's say a beginner is looking to jam with friends doing their favorite cover tunes. In that case, I'd say a Jupiter 80 is easier than an M50, with more obvious ways to do things like transpose, split the keyboard, or find common sounds. I mean, let's say you have a song where you want a simple 2-way split, where you want to play a string pad with your left hand, and switch back and forth between piano and organ parts with your right for different parts of the song. Sounds simple... and it is pretty simple on the Jupiter 80, but is really rather complicated for a new user to set up on the M50 and MOX. Now let's say that you want easily accessible volume controls for the sounds on either side of the split. Again, easy on the Jupiter 80, and rather complicated on the M50 and MOX. And these are basic things a beginner may want to do.
So yes, the Jupiter is pricey and "over-qualified" for what a beginner may want to do... but if the budget is there, it sounds good, and for a lot of common uses, it's simpler than what you consider to be "more appropriate" boards. If your biggest issue is the price, for everything I mentioned, the Jupiter 50 will work just as well for a lot less money... but if someone were buying today, well, the 50 doesn't exist yet. |
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xp50player
Full Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Thought I would add my $.02 about what attracted me to the Kronos and away from the JP and Motif. I wanted tonewheel and analog modeling for sure, and the FM was highly compelling as well.
The Kronos has a full control surface for the organ where the Jupiter doesn't, maybe on its lil' screen, but do not want. The JP voice hierarchy is too weird. I did not want to contend with that when every other synth I've ever owned is basic Patch/Multi architecture.
The Motif seems like a monolith of buttons, though I guess they are about the same in number as Kronos. It doesn't have a number keypad, which I prefer, and the two rows of softkeys and cursor buttons are not nearly as handy as my finger for selecting a parameter on-screen. The Kronos is so much more of a clean interface, and JP looks better as well in this regard.
I also didn't care about PCM sounds as much (except keys), and that's all the Motif has, with no PLG slots anymore for other synth engines. The sequencer wasn't a factor; I don't think I will ever use that in place of Cubase and a big monitor.
The Wave sequencing was attractive though, with all the original ROM and EXP waveforms from the Wavestation. How can you say no to that? I feel like I may be done buying synthesizers with this thing. Yes it has a long boot time, but that is the only way you are going to get instant access to a 12Gb sound library. |
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Alan Waddington
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:17 am Post subject: |
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[pre]
thomann.de sales rank:
Kronos-61 2459 (introduced July 2011)
Jupiter-80 19935 (introduced July 2011)
[/pre]
It doesn't tell you sales volume, but I think is fairly telling. |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2109
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | To me all these optimistic explanations about Roland and the JP80 look extremely far fetched and in part unwillingly comical.
... who will be thankful to use it exactly as it is, not even thinking about how much better it could have been, and instead find no better place on earth to flood people with their euphemistic JP80 views, than a Kronos user forum, for the time being.
I have no problem naming Kronos or Korg weaknesses, while I like this synth so much. But I have a hard time finding any of that kind of realism and healthy critical views among JP80 users. |
Glad I have brought you some entertainment!
Is it just not possible that I find the JP-80 better than the Kronos? Why do people not get that? I have an OASYS so don't need a Kronos.
Plus I didn't start the conversation anyway.
I too find it comical coming here most days and seeing the sycophantic blindness that can't see that the Kronos has the worst manufacturing issues I have ever seen in any keyboard.
Great - let's go gigging with a keyboard that may cut out (as reported here - or are we just to filter out what you like to read or not).
Yes, the JP-80 has many flaws; trust me. I'm just willing to live with them (I am more than happy to go over them with you if you wish) - but live with the Kronos is not something I do even if someone paid me.
_________________
Plugged in:Fantom G6, Jupiter-80, V-Synth GTv2, XV5050, SRV330, Symphony Module, ER mk2, D3200, iMS20, iPolysix, Alesis M1 Active Mk2
www.soundcloud.com/ngowans
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Francois
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4339
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| cello wrote: | | Is it just not possible that I find the JP-80 better than the Kronos? |
No problem with that. I can understand why a J80 owner would think that it's the bee's knees. I debated long and hard about buying one instead of the Kronos, so I can see its appeal.
What I object to is the fact that too many J80 owners feel the need to slag off the Kronos by carefully pointing its flaws, real or exaggerated, as is to justify their purchase.
I've never tried to convince anyone that the Kronos was superior to the J80. I'd like to see the reverse apply as well.
J80 people, praise your machine for what it does well, not for what you think the Kronos does badly !
Last edited by Francois on Wed May 23, 2012 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kanout
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: |
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francois wrote:
| Quote: | [facetious mode on]
Nah...to be really unique and sound different, you need a Solaris !
[facetious mode off] |
Great argument!
jimknopf wrote:
| Quote: | To me all these optimistic explanations about Roland and the JP80 look extremely far fetched and in part unwillingly comical.
... who will be thankful to use it exactly as it is, not even thinking about how much better it could have been, and instead find no better place on earth to flood people with their euphemistic JP80 views, than a Kronos user forum, for the time being.
I have no problem naming Kronos or Korg weaknesses, while I like this synth so much. But I have a hard time finding any of that kind of realism and healthy critical views among JP80 users.
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When you're writing about the jupiter 80,you are 90 per cent sarcastic and 10 per cent arguments..
It's one of the reason to answer here as a jupiter owner.
You can find the jupiter owner théory funny,and if i 'm in a same thoughs as you i can find very funny some kronos owners who find their keyboard outstanding while they can't play it because it is on the service center,or it doesn't start...etc etc(when you read some post sometimes about the outstanding kronos from people who are beginners,and who understand 0.5 per cent of their keyboard...you can find it funny too..)
As an ex kronos user and jupiter buyer,i find really intersesting to understand why i feel the opposite from others here.
Not for sarcastic sharing,just because as musicians i'm always trying to understand other musicians..
It is possible with the majority of users,not with you..
About the price theory:
I playing live all the year with a nord stage 2,along(or not)with my jupiter..and the nord is a succes while it is in the same price range of the roland.
Having the 2,i can say the roland is far powerfull for the price than the NORD..
But NORD sales are superior to the roland i think..
So there's a limit to the price theory! |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2109
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Francois wrote: | | cello wrote: | | Is it just not possible that I find the JP-80 better than the Kronos? |
No problem with that. I can understand why a J80 owner would think that it's the bee's knees. I debated long and hard about buying one instead of the Kronos, so I can see its appeal.
What I object to is the fact that too many J80 owners feel the need to slag off the Kronos by carefully pointing its flaws, real or exaggerated, as is to justify their purchase.
I've never tried to convince anyone that the Kronos was superior to the J80. I'd like to see the reverse apply as well.
J80 people, praise your machine for what it does well, not for what you think the Kronos does badly ! |
I guess that's the impossible part of this debate... I don't actually think the JP-80 is a better sound-machine than the Kronos - seriously! I've never actually said that.
They are entirely different beasts. And they are both beasts in their own market I think.
As I said I'm happy to list the 'flaws (entirely subjective) of the JP-80. Aftertouch routing does not allow for vibrato to attach to SN Synth tones, but it is fixed to vibrato for SN Acoustic tones, for example.
All said, I think it's not a case of JP-80 vs Kronos (as per thread title) - it should be Kronos + JP-80!, because the combination will be amazing; as they are both the best at what they do.
Well, that's what I find with the OASYS + JP-80 anyway 
(PS I'd like to apologise if anything I have said has been annoying through being unreasonable or unwarranted - not my intent!)
_________________
Plugged in:Fantom G6, Jupiter-80, V-Synth GTv2, XV5050, SRV330, Symphony Module, ER mk2, D3200, iMS20, iPolysix, Alesis M1 Active Mk2
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Francois
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4339
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I'd go along with that. Money and space no object, I'd put the Kronos on the lower tier, the J80 on the middle tier and the Solaris on the top tier. That would suffice for me. Well, on the keyboard front anyway, I never said anything about racks  |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| cello wrote: | | jimknopf wrote: | To me all these optimistic explanations about Roland and the JP80 look extremely far fetched and in part unwillingly comical.
... who will be thankful to use it exactly as it is, not even thinking about how much better it could have been, and instead find no better place on earth to flood people with their euphemistic JP80 views, than a Kronos user forum, for the time being.
I have no problem naming Kronos or Korg weaknesses, while I like this synth so much. But I have a hard time finding any of that kind of realism and healthy critical views among JP80 users. |
Glad I have brought you some entertainment!
Is it just not possible that I find the JP-80 better than the Kronos? Why do people not get that? I have an OASYS so don't need a Kronos.
Plus I didn't start the conversation anyway.
I too find it comical coming here most days and seeing the sycophantic blindness that can't see that the Kronos has the worst manufacturing issues I have ever seen in any keyboard.
Great - let's go gigging with a keyboard that may cut out (as reported here - or are we just to filter out what you like to read or not).
Yes, the JP-80 has many flaws; trust me. I'm just willing to live with them (I am more than happy to go over them with you if you wish) - but live with the Kronos is not something I do even if someone paid me. |
I had an opportunity to examine an OASYS yesterday and am considering selling my Kronos to buy it. Despite all the great features the Kronos has to offer, it has been a miserable ownership experience that I would not wish on anyone. After a year of waiting and assurances from Korg USA, I was just informed that I will be getting replacement contacts instead of a new keybed.
The Jupiter does indeed have its own shortcomings, but that has more to do with what it can and can't do by design. I can manage those expectations. On the other hand, my issues with the Kronos relate entirely to things like build quality and reliability. That kind of unpredictability simply isn't acceptable in a keyboard.
_________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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Francois
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4339
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| You don't have to have the whole keyboard replaced to have the issue fixed. Changing the rubbers will cure the problem, so if you keyboard is properly assembled, well space, etc., no need to change it. |
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