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Andy Leary
Korg Research and Development
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 38
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 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Also, part of the page in the Kronos manul that shows the differences between the original Korg CX3 and the Kronox CX3 says the following:
"Rotary Speaker Acceleration and Deceleration - The Rotary Speaker Acceleration/Deceleration parameters were named “Transit” on the original CX‐3. Their ranges are also reversed from the original CX‐3, in order to be consistent with the rest of the KRONOS system: 0=slow, and 100=fast"
The above statement confuses me. Both the Kronos and the CX3 manul describe the 'Transit' settings the same, 0=slow, 100=fast. Yet they made the statement above about reversing their ranges. What is correct? Based on the link above, should I be subtracting the transit settings from 100 to get the correct transit settings for Kronos?
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On the Kronos, when Acceleration is 0 it takes a very long time for the horn or rotor to ramp up to the fast speed. On the CX-3 keyboard, you had to set Transit = 100 to get a slow ramp up. The Kronos parameter is acceleration so a high acceleration gets you there quickly. The CX-3 keyboard parameter was Transit TIME, so a to get you there quickly you set it for a small amount of time.
Also, note that this documentation has been updated. It's not the horn Speed that was increased, but the Acceleration. The correct documentation is:
| Quote: |
Rotary Speaker Acceleration and Deceleration
The Rotary Speaker Acceleration/Deceleration parameters were named “Transit” on the original CX‐3. To be consistent with the rest of the system, the KRONOS values range from 0 (slowest) to 100 (fastest), while the original CX‐3 went from 99 (slowest) to 0 (fastest).
Additionally, for the Horn only, the maximum acceleration, deceleration, start, and stop rates have been increased to about twice that of the original CX‐3. The minimum rates are still the same.
To convert settings from the original CX‐3 Horn “Transit” parameters, use the following formula, rounding as necessary:
KRONOS value = (100 ‐ (original CX‐3 value))/100 x 52
In other words, the KRONOS value range of 52...0 is equivalent to the original CX‐3 range of 0...99, and KRONOS values 53 and higher are all faster than the original CX‐3.
To convert settings from the original CX‐3 Rotor “Transit” parameters, the formula is:
KRONOS value = 100 ‐ (original CX‐3 value) |
Also, the Mic Distance parameters are different from the original CX-3 as well. These parameters make a huge difference in the timbre of the sound. If you just plug in the CX-3 value, you'll get the wrong sound. You have to use 100 - parameter. So, it the parameter was 40 on the CX-3, it must be set to 60 on the Kronos. Documentation from the manual is:
| Quote: |
Rotary Speaker Mic Modeling
For consistency with the rest of the KRONOS, the value ranges of the mic modeling parameters have been changed slightly. On the original CX‐3, they were 0‐99; in the KRONOS, they are 0‐100.
Additionally, the parameter ranges of the Horn and Rotor Mic Distance parameters are reversed. To convert these parameters from the original CX‐3, use the following formula:
Mic Distance = 100‐(original CX‐3 mic distance)
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Hope this helps. I assure you that you can make the Kronos sound just like the CX3 keyboard if you set the parameters correctly. As has been posted elsewhere, it's easy to clip the output of the CX-3 so be careful with you output levels and gains in IFX.
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Andy Leary
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DZarob
Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you Andy. I appreciate your replies. |
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jerrythek
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Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 2931
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: |
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I can help (hi Andy!):
At the release of the BX3 we revised the engine of the CX3 and released a system updater. The team worked on the drawbars and to maintain compatibility they made the Drawbar Curve parameter. Bright is the original CX3 setting, and Mellow was a new scaling that the original designer/consultant liked better.
So to be like the original (90's) sound use Bright.
Regards,
Jerry |
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Andy Leary
Korg Research and Development
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jerry,
Hey, I should have asked you first! When you got a question, you gotta go to someone who knows the answer!
As I understand it, the very early CX-3 (digital) keyboards did not have waterfall keyboards. Instead they had the synth type keybed, and the waterfall action was added on later models.
Comparing the early version and later version manuals that I posted links to above, it looks like there were several parameters added or changed between these two versions:
DB Level Curve
Noise Level
EX Lower 0..8
Speaker Sim OnOff
and the "Dark" setting was added to the reverb.
In addition, there were several changes made in the area of controllers for hold, split, rotary fast, stop, etc. and several changes in Global controllers.
But I'm sure Jerry already knows this!!!
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Andy Leary
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Leary wrote: | | As I understand it, the very early CX-3 (digital) keyboards did not have waterfall keyboards. Instead they had the synth type keybed, and the waterfall action was added on later models. |
Although the early digital CX3 was not waterfall, I would not call it synth-type either. It did have a small, curved lip on the front of the keys which prevented it from being a true waterfall, but functionally, it played like an organ keyboard, it didn't look or feel like what you would normally associate with a synth. Actually, it was quite nice. |
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jerrythek
Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 2931
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | Andy Leary wrote: | | As I understand it, the very early CX-3 (digital) keyboards did not have waterfall keyboards. Instead they had the synth type keybed, and the waterfall action was added on later models. |
Although the early digital CX3 was not waterfall, I would not call it synth-type either. It did have a small, curved lip on the front of the keys which prevented it from being a true waterfall, but functionally, it played like an organ keyboard, it didn't look or feel like what you would normally associate with a synth. Actually, it was quite nice. |
Yes, this is accurate. It was like a waterfall key with a slightly rounded lip at the front edge.
I remember that when the new keybed as released (the true waterfall) they also revised the spring tension to slightly stiffen the feel, and decrease the double-bounce that the original keybed was prone to producing. That first keybed could almost "spit/chatter" when playing - you could easily experience this by flicking a key and watching (and hearing it) multiple trigger. The new, true waterfall keybed did not do this.
Regards,
Jerry |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| jerrythek wrote: | | I remember that when the new keybed as released (the true waterfall) they also revised the spring tension to slightly stiffen the feel |
Yeah, at one point I briefly owned both versions, and I decided to sell the newer one and keep the original, I liked it better, though I couldn't quantify why. Now that I know more about them, I'd like to have the opportunity to play them side by side again! I know the waterfall one was made by Fatar, it sounds like the earlier version was as well?
That's also one thing I still prefer about the "real" CX3 over the Kronos implementation... I prefer playing on the real CX3's keys. I've wondered whether there may be a partial software fix for this, as, theoretically, I think they could update the Kronos with a parameter that would allow it to trigger the organ at a higher point in the key travel (since there's no need to "wait" for the key to hit the second, lower sensor, as the organ does not require any velocity parameter), and that might make it feel better for organ playing. |
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DZarob
Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, one more question please.
The original CX3 settings from the link below has some offset settings that I'm not sure I understand. Here is the link again:
http://www.ktopits.com/dec/CX3%20settings.HTML
For example, there are the Perc FAST Decay and Perc Slow Offset parameters. On the Kronos it's not an offset. It's a direct value. Should I take Perc FAST Decay plus/minus Perc Slow Offset to come up with the absolute value that Kronos would need for the Perc Slow Decay parameter? Does this same logic also apply for the Perc NRML Level and the Perc Offset parameters?
Thanks again! |
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Andy Leary
Korg Research and Development
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Yes, that's right. We made these direct values instead of offsets on the Kronos.
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