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Kontrol49 · Platinum Member Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 1280

There's nothing wrong with using named people for the purpose of gaining interest,or marketing I wonder just how many sales are bought based on a famous person endorsing it,I would say very little in such a high end purchase synth.

It is something that has never persuaded myself to buy,its not something I even think about.

I just think your opening yourself up for all sorts of failings, if you buy on that understanding I can understand perhaps buying on watching them play and hearing what its capable of,but again you have to take into consideration your own playing and programming abilities,there seems to be a mindset among some people that because an idol uses a certain synth then its perfect for them,your buying into something blindly like that!

In most cases of wanting patches like the sounds my idols used,I had far more fun and learnt a lot in the process of trying to emulate those sounds on synthesizers rather than buy an instrument because it was loaded with a prebank that I didn't even have to bother trying to learn the working of most of which are normally competely useless for the musicians needs anyway,its one of the reasons I decided to let go of most of the romplers in the studio.

it just seems in this day and age we are obsessed with banks and banks and libraries of sounds we never use or will ever need rather than learn the ins and outs and create sounds to fit our own style,there's nothing wrong with using presets but it kind of defeats the purpose of having full on sound editing and sampling in a machine if all you ever want is others to do the thinking or creativity for you by simply loading premade bank,sometimes a preset may be all you need to fit the track,but sometimes I think it detracts the musician from exploring the capabilities of their tools.

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Kontrol49, I talk of recogizeable, useable SOUND patches, not of names for the sake of name marketing.

I know many keyboarders who want that (sounds they can relate to), and much of the positive sound impression of the JP80 is exactly due to this effect, even without having to call any keyboarder names.

GregC · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject:

johnxyz · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject:

I just heard that violin demo - it WAS impressive. I've just desperately searched my PC3x for similiar, and its not as good.

However on those video demos there is way too much yack and not enough playing the sounds.

Anyway, the Ed from keyboard mag just wanted to tinkle on that JP8 - cant say i blame him. I know which i'd rather have.
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CURENT GEAR USED LIVE
Triton Extreme 61 + Moss, Kurzweil PC3K6, Roland JP-08, Studiologic SL88 Studio

aron · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:56 pm Post subject:

Something is weird about that demo video. First of all the Jupiter sounds a LOT bigger in the video than I heard in person. I played it 4 times in 3 different stores. It never sounded as big as that video demo.

The Kronos was always right by the Jupiter and it sounded much bigger and had more fidelity (or so it seemed) with the same speakers.

I admit that the Jupiter sounds good in the video, but I can only say that if the Kronos was playing through the same EQ etc... it would sound just as massive.

I did not find the violin to be that amazing in person although I agree it sounds good when Scott is demoing it. This reminds me of when I first heard the WX7 with DX - it sounded AMAZING!!!!!! Sal Gallina could make it sing like no one else.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

Chriskk · Senior Member Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 349

aron · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject:

I admit to not knowing what a $50k violin sounds like so if you tell me the JP80 sounds like a $50k violin then I take your word for it.

After all of this talk, I guess the acoustic sounds will be a great asset for people that use violin and trumpet sounds live.

I think I have used a trumpet sound once in the past year. It's weird how lots of people always talk about how they want a powerful synth, then end up talking about acoustic emulations so much. It's like when I bought my VL1, they said it would replace instruments in the studio. I don't think it did.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Funny how different keyboard demands can be. Wink

What I really use all the time are EPs, pianos, synth stuff and B3, and some pads, arps, sample stuff and the like.
I have close to zero use for a faked solo violin or the like in band play.
And in my home studio I would use software libraries for such purposes.

For my purposes and my sound taste the Kronos is the much better and more advanced instrument, both in sounds and in functions. I wouldn't even consider buying a JP80 at that price for a second, even if I had completely forgotten my Fantom G experience.

aron · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject:

Jim, I agree.

Another thing is that although in the demo Scott says you can play the instrument like a piano and it will try and make it sound "real". Anyone that really plays a real instrument like guitar knows that you really need to play it idiomatically to sound correct. Voicings, phrasings, articulations are equally as important to making the sound be "realistic".

Well, I guess I look forward to hearing that nice JP80 trumpet or violin solo in the next pop release. Time to bring back solos anyway!

Finally, why heck do the keyboard players have to play these cheesy emulations of real instruments along with strings, brass and other stuff when no one else in the band is required to do these things? Why can't we play piano or organ or synth only? We don't ask the guitarist or bassist to play sax or trumpet on their instruments. Why do they ask us???????? Smile

Sorry about the rant!
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

Bruce Lychee · Platinum Member Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 856

I had a horrible Fantom G ownership experience and was for quite some time didn't think I would want another a Roland product. Then came the V- synth GT and now the Jupiter.

The Kronos is great in the key areas of pianos and EPs and the primary reason I love it. The being said, I think the Jupiter is a uniquely expressive instrument that lends itself to creativity. I do hope they expand the effects routing in a future software update and allow for more EP edits, but that's about it.

I posted a response in the Roland forum that I think has some relevance here:

Unfortunately out of town for the weekend without the Jupiter so I have yet to dig into creating raw sounds on the synth side. It is definitely responsible for great sounds in the factory patches, including the atmospheric sounds you can get with the V. I posted al link to all of the synth edit related screens in my screen shot thread for those interested.

If your needs are purely in the studio, on the synth side, the V is going to be a more versatile tool with sampling, Variphrase, vocoding, etc. and a tactile interface suited to creating sounds. The Jupiter is obviously capable of creating equally amazing sounds, but you won't have as many tools to manipulate sound and the interface is screen driven. I will say, however, that the GUI works seamlessly with the robust Roland dial and is one of the few touchscreen interfaces I have enjoyed using.

If you already have a precise vision of each sound you want to get and you are programming, you can use the V to create layers until you have what you need. What the Jupiter adds in the studio is the ability to quickly and directly experiment with layers of sounds to give you incredibly rich and fat sounds for use or ideas.

The acoustic sounds are superb. Personally, I feel they offer an incredible range of the highest quality sounds I have ever heard. They have great live presence and very natural tones. Then there are the articulations. Although the V introduced the articulations, the Jupiter has taken those articulations to a much deeper and more refined level. I do think it takes time to fully understand and utilize the articulations, but they a really amazing. Although something like the VL-1 might give more detailed control, I feel the sounds and articulations on the Jupiter have a more realistic result. Furthermore, the fact that you can be utilizing multiple sounds and their articulations at the same time results in a unique creative tool. The layering of SN acoustic and synth tones results in expressive sounds that I don't think I have heard elsewhere, including the V.

The things I mentioned above are focused on why I think the Jupiter has a place in the studio, even if it wasn't really designed with that focus. I think the quality of the sounds and the uniquely expressive sounds that can be created have much to offer in the studio. The way the board is set up also lends itself to creativity. Perhaps a pure programmer might not feel that way, but as a piano/keyboard player, I love the way the registrations and sets are organized and the expressivity of the Jupiter is unlike any keyboard I have played. For what it lacks in features compared to full featured workstations, it gives you invaluable tools in the areas of creativity and expression.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64

Bruce Lychee · Platinum Member Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 856

Bruce Lychee · Platinum Member Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 856

aron · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject:

>I say you are totally wrong on this one. The Jupiter does indeed sound huge and fat and has superb fidelity. In those areas, I would argue it sounds better than the Kronos sitting next to it running through the exact same setup.

I could be completely wrong. All I can tell you is that I played it 4 times in 3 different stores and am only reporting what I heard. I was not the only one making these comments.

Why would I play it 4 times? To be honest because my friends said it didn't sound good compared to the Kronos. I'm serious. After a while my friends said "you're trying your best to find something good in that keyboard". These were not keyboard players that made these statements. I knew that I was probably dialing up or using it incorrectly because I like Roland instruments. All of these players have heard the VL1 and that probably explains why they were not impressed by the Trumpet or sax (thanks Busch). Also they probably cannot tell the difference between the subtleties of analog synths.

It is entirely possible that because I know the Kronos, I dialed up the best sounding patches and because I don't know the JP80, I dialed up the worst sounds.

If you say it sounds better then fine. You know better than me.

One thing I feel I do have experience with is that there is no way that Jupiter acoustic emulation of wind instruments sounds better than a VL1 played with a breath controller. No way. I don't care how much they tell you that you can play like a piano and it just does it. It does not.

Anyway, I'm done with talking about the Jupiter, this is a Korg forum, so I will deal with the Kronos. Thanks for your input.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

Bruce Lychee · Platinum Member Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 856

As I noted above, the VL-1 will give you more detailed control and you do have to make adjustments to fully benefit from the articulations on the Jupiter. The ability to use multiple articulations and integrate articulations into unique sounds, however, makes the Jupiter quite a powerful tool.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64

Chriskk · Senior Member Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 349