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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:08 am Post subject: Audio Track Recording Question |
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I'm confused about the "compare" button after an audio track recording. Does it work as an "undo" of a "take" you want to discard? The Op Guide seems to indicate that it does....but I am not hearing this on my Kronos. I rec an audio track....then I press compare....and play the track again......I still hear the take I just recorded. Shouldn't compare act as an Undo here? If not, how do you "reject" an audio take after you have recorded it?
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Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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panrixx
Senior Member
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 448
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I think compare means 'compare the last edited sound to the sound prior to the last edit'. So, you are comparing sound 4 to sound 3 or sound 2 to sound 1, etc. I do not think it is a straight forward 'undo' button. Someone who has owned a Kronos for a little time could confirm this.
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Rhodes 73 Mk1; Kronos 88; Synthex; Electribe EMX-1; Motif XS Rack; Yamaha DX7IIFD; Yamaha MM8; Roland Alpha Juno-2; Roland JV-2080; Tascam FW-1884. |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| panrixx wrote: | | I think compare means 'compare the last edited sound to the sound prior to the last edit'. So, you are comparing sound 4 to sound 3 or sound 2 to sound 1, etc. I do not think it is a straight forward 'undo' button. Someone who has owned a Kronos for a little time could confirm this. |
Really? In a midi track it seems to work as an undo. Record a midi phrase...press compare....and it reverses the recording, right? Not the same with audio?
Maybe the better question is.....how do you reject or delete an audio "take" once you have recorded it? I would hate to load up my SSD with bad "takes". Seems to me you should be able to record a take....listen back to it to decide if you like it....and then either keep it or delete it, so you can record your next "take". Maybe I am missing the obvious?
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | | panrixx wrote: | | I think compare means 'compare the last edited sound to the sound prior to the last edit'. So, you are comparing sound 4 to sound 3 or sound 2 to sound 1, etc. I do not think it is a straight forward 'undo' button. Someone who has owned a Kronos for a little time could confirm this. |
Really? In a midi track it seems to work as an undo. Record a midi phrase...press compare....and it reverses the recording, right? Not the same with audio?
Maybe the better question is.....how do you reject or delete an audio "take" once you have recorded it? I would hate to load up my SSD with bad "takes". Seems to me you should be able to record a take....listen back to it to decide if you like it....and then either keep it or delete it, so you can record your next "take". Maybe I am missing the obvious? |
I think what Panrixx means is that it is only a single Undo, not a repeatable Undo button, I think it's only possible to switch between the current and the last (changed) situation, not continue pressing and undo steps before the last change.
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panrixx
Senior Member
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 448
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | | panrixx wrote: | | I think compare means 'compare the last edited sound to the sound prior to the last edit'. So, you are comparing sound 4 to sound 3 or sound 2 to sound 1, etc. I do not think it is a straight forward 'undo' button. Someone who has owned a Kronos for a little time could confirm this. |
Really? In a midi track it seems to work as an undo........... |
I was trying to help but, as I have not had my K88 delivered yet, suggested someone might confirm for me. You have and michelkeijzers was more or less correct.
_________________
Rhodes 73 Mk1; Kronos 88; Synthex; Electribe EMX-1; Motif XS Rack; Yamaha DX7IIFD; Yamaha MM8; Roland Alpha Juno-2; Roland JV-2080; Tascam FW-1884. |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: |
I think what Panrixx means is that it is only a single Undo, not a repeatable Undo button, I think it's only possible to switch between the current and the last (changed) situation, not continue pressing and undo steps before the last change. |
Yea, I get that. But the situation here is just a single "undo step". Make a recording....press compare...should undo the recording, right? One step.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| panrixx wrote: |
I was trying to help but, as I have not had my K88 delivered yet, suggested someone might confirm for me. You have and michelkeijzers was more or less correct. |
No worries, panrixx....I absolutely appreciate your post and the help! 
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | | michelkeijzers wrote: |
I think what Panrixx means is that it is only a single Undo, not a repeatable Undo button, I think it's only possible to switch between the current and the last (changed) situation, not continue pressing and undo steps before the last change. |
Yea, I get that. But the situation here is just a single "undo step". Make a recording....press compare...should undo the recording, right? One step. |
I just tried this:
1. Recorded an audio track
2. Played back to confirm that it was recorded
3. Pressed Compare
The recording was removed. Seemed to work properly.
Can you try it again? Maybe there was an intermediate step of some sort which made another edit to the Song.
- Dan
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: |
I just tried this:
1. Recorded an audio track
2. Played back to confirm that it was recorded
3. Pressed Compare
The recording was removed. Seemed to work properly.
Can you try it again? Maybe there was an intermediate step of some sort which made another edit to the Song.
- Dan |
Thanks Dan. I'm at work right now, away from my toys (earning the $$$ to pay for my toys!), so I will re-try this evening here in San Diego.
However, this is exactly what I was doing last night, over and over, and it did not seem to work this way. I would record a new audio track. Play it back to confirm it had recorded. Pressed compare. Pressed Play again, and the audio track still played as before. Hence.....my post here.
Does the locate button, or transport position, have anything to do with it? Might I need to press locate to RTZ before pressing compare? I may have stopped the transport AFTER the end of the audio file (after I listened to it).
Also....assuming that I am just wrong, and you are right about how this functions.....what happens to the audio file when you press compare? I assume you can press compare back and forth to remove and restore the audio track. I also assume that if you move on and make another edit or action, after you have pressed compare to REMOVE the audio track, then you have committed to its removal. Is the audio file therefore deleted from Kronos hard disc, automatically? Or do you always need to do some manual maintenance of the audio files you record, in Disc Mode? I am aware that if you turn off the Kronos without saving a song, or saving audio files separately, that Kronos will give you a prompt on your next boot up to restore or delete the files. But how does the compare function interact or relate to this?
Bottom line, I want to do an audio "take", go back and listen to it, and then elect to keep it, or delete it. Compare seemed like the obvious way to do this, but perhaps I have it wrong from a work flow point of view. Maybe just over-writing the track is all I need to do? Or does Kronos keep each "take" as audio files so you can use them (or delete them) later?
I will report back when I get home this evening.
Thanks again, Dan!
Ron
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Ok I can confirm that Dan is correct, and I am apparently crazy. 
Last night I could not get the compare function to work....today, with a fresh set of eyes, I see that you can toggle compare to remove or restore an audio "take" right after you have recorded it. Perhaps I was adding a step last night, which was causing compare to focus on the next task, after the recording. I'm not sure.
None the less....it does work...and now I have further questions about audio file management on the Kronos. I see that even if I use compare to "undo" a recording. And then record a new 'take" on the same track...thus committing to the "undo" of the first "take".....When I go into Disc Mode, I can find BOTH audio files (the Undone file, and the new "Take") in a TEMP folder. Now my question is......Once I save the song, will it save only the "takes" that I have "used" in my song.....or will it save all of those audio files, even the "undone" takes?
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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jg::
Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2003
Posts: 685
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:44 am Post subject: |
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If there are any audio files that are not attached to a "region", iirc, then when you next boot up, it will ask if you want to delete them. I suggest that you check this and see if that includes your unwanted take.
jg:: |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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That seems awkward to me. I may be working on multiple songs, and may have many discarded 'takes'. The next day when I re-boot the K, I may not remember which ones I want to keep or discard. There may be various projects/songs intermingled. It just seems like an awkward way to manage a project. I would prefer if the K asked me to keep or discard files along the way.......or just simply only kept those takes "used" in a song....or maintained a 'virtual track' or 'virtual take' system where several takes are saved with a song, but could be discarded as a user selection.
Oh well....either I am missing something or it is just not as slick as I had hoped.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | | or just simply only kept those takes "used" in a song |
Would this not be the same as deleting unused ones later, rather than sooner?
as in:
| jg:: wrote: | | If there are any audio files that are not attached to a "region", iirc, then when you next boot up, it will ask if you want to delete them. |
At least that means that when you still have the song open you can go back and 'undelete' them because they're not actually gone. as with the compare function..
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| X-Trade wrote: | | RonF wrote: | | or just simply only kept those takes "used" in a song |
Would this not be the same as deleting unused ones later, rather than sooner?
as in:
| jg:: wrote: | | If there are any audio files that are not attached to a "region", iirc, then when you next boot up, it will ask if you want to delete them. |
At least that means that when you still have the song open you can go back and 'undelete' them because they're not actually gone. as with the compare function.. |
Of course I see your point. But its a very different paradigm than I would prefer, or am used to. Having "virtual tracks", per se, is one thing, where you have a number of takes that you elect to retain, so you don't lose them, or can comp them later. But throwing all your "takes" into one pool so they have to be reviewed/managed by the user, is entirely another.
When I record live audio, I might have dozens of takes. Some of them are just garbage. It fills up a hard drive quickly, unchecked. And along side those garbage takes, I might also have secondary takes that do have some use or merit, or that I wish to keep for some reason (i.e.: a virtual track).
Under the current Kronos system, as I understand, all of those takes are thrown together, and you are asked to manually restore or delete them.....the next time you *reboot* (which is fundamentally flawed and awkward IMHO). I guess what I am saying here is....Sure I understand your point, and can navigate my way through using this system as is (carefully naming takes, and taking the time to review the audio files on my next reboot....which likely means I need to, in reality, either force a reboot at the end of my session, or more likely go spend some quality time in Disc Mode to manage my session). But all of this could be much better implemented to have the system automatically manage much of it for you, by simply addressing the retention or deletion of audio files *as you go*....like other audio recorders I have used and am familiar with (not naming any names!).
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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