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First Impressions: Minor (and fixable) KRONOS faults
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madbeatzyo111
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Joined: 13 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone said earlier, the Kronos screen is not the same as the M3's. The reason why the M3 screen readability is so extremely affected by angle is the same reason why contrast adjustment helps. Kronos' screen I fear will not respond in the same way at all, and I think it's proven by the fact that Korg chose not to include a way to adjust it.
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RonF
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Joined: 04 Jul 2002
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

madbeatzyo111 wrote:
As someone said earlier, the Kronos screen is not the same as the M3's. The reason why the M3 screen readability is so extremely affected by angle is the same reason why contrast adjustment helps. Kronos' screen I fear will not respond in the same way at all, and I think it's proven by the fact that Korg chose not to include a way to adjust it.


Well... ok thats a fair theory. But certainly not "proven", and not what Dan said earlier in this thread. He certainly could have said just that, if that was in fact the case. Bottom line....we don't know for sure. But the Kronos exhibits the same behavior as the M3 when viewed "off axis", albeit at a much reduced level, and with a much higher resolution. For me, thinking about the many screens I have had and used on various pieces of gear...some good and some not so good....a contrast adjustment is almost always included, and makes whatever difference that it makes (some good and some not so good)....but its certainly better than NO control whatsoever. With out it....the ONLY control is "physical placement"...of either the keyboard...or of your body.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4073
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RonF wrote:
madbeatzyo111 wrote:
As someone said earlier, the Kronos screen is not the same as the M3's. The reason why the M3 screen readability is so extremely affected by angle is the same reason why contrast adjustment helps. Kronos' screen I fear will not respond in the same way at all, and I think it's proven by the fact that Korg chose not to include a way to adjust it.


Well... ok thats a fair theory. But certainly not "proven", and not what Dan said earlier in this thread. He certainly could have said just that, if that was in fact the case. Bottom line....we don't know for sure. But the Kronos exhibits the same behavior as the M3 when viewed "off axis", albeit at a much reduced level, and with a much higher resolution. For me, thinking about the many screens I have had and used on various pieces of gear...some good and some not so good....a contrast adjustment is almost always included, and makes whatever difference that it makes (some good and some not so good)....but its certainly better than NO control whatsoever. With out it....the ONLY control is "physical placement"...of either the keyboard...or of your body.


The M3's display completely flips black and white at about a 45 degree angle. The KRONOS display never does this; I'd estimate my standard working angle at 35-45 degrees, and the screen works well for me there.

One difference is that the M3 display is driven by an analog signal, while the KRONOS display is connected digitally. As with various other digitally-connected displays (though I imagine not all of them), the KRONOS does not offer a contrast control. The monitor I'm using to type this, a nice NEC display connected via DVI, has a control called "contrast," but it does not appear to affect viewing angle, and subjectively seems to do something completely different from the M3's similarly-named control.
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RonF
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Joined: 04 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:


The M3's display completely flips black and white at about a 45 degree angle. The KRONOS display never does this; I'd estimate my standard working angle at 35-45 degrees, and the screen works well for me there.

One difference is that the M3 display is driven by an analog signal, while the KRONOS display is connected digitally. As with various other digitally-connected displays (though I imagine not all of them), the KRONOS does not offer a contrast control. The monitor I'm using to type this, a nice NEC display connected via DVI, has a control called "contrast," but it does not appear to affect viewing angle, and subjectively seems to do something completely different from the M3's similarly-named control.


Thanks again, Dan! The digital vs. analog information is, AFAIK, new and valuable info. That explains a lot. I have a few digital monitors and TV's myself. They do have a "contrast" control. I will have to take some time to analyze exactly what they do. However, one thing I will say about my digital monitors and TVs is that their native viewing angle is outstanding, and far wider than the Kronos display. So perhaps its a matter of the native characteristics of the digital display which is used, and that's that.

In which case....THIS makes the case, with the Kronos screen, for a physical tilting (form factor, as madbeatzyo111 said) of the screen, since its apparently not adjustable via a software control (as you imply).

My problem with the Kronos viewing angle, is it appears to be just on the edge of my natural sitting distance. A few inches forward or backward in my sitting angle, makes a huge difference in the clarity of what I see. So rather than sitting naturally and comfortably, I need to lean forward just a bit, and it gets uncomfortable pretty quick.

I think that is a VERY individual thing, based on a several variables....such as your height, arm length, distance vision, the chair you are sitting in, its height, its natural recline, the angle you have the Kronos at, at what height, and the lighting in the environment you are in...to name a few. In other words...what may be "just right", or more acceptable to you, may not be that way for another person in a different environment.....simply because the screen angle is a fixed characteristic from unit to unit (relatively), but all those other variables are...well...variable.

So without any type of user adjustment (sans physically tilting of the keyboard a considerable amount)....you are kind of out of luck.....especially considering the small nature of the screen fonts, which elevates that "distance vision" variable to a high priority. Just my opinion, but all in all, its not a MAJOR issue....just a potential area of improvement for the K.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
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padking
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Laval,quebec

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

I have used my new Kronos 61 for a couple of
days and I have to admit that I have mixe
emotion about the machine.

First it look's great, I was a m3 owner and I
wont miss the color or the buttons of the M3

I do have problem with the screen, we dont have all 20/20 vision and the text for me
is small, I have to look closer to read and it's
a drag.
My Kronos is placed on the top space of my rack
(my yamaha cp 33 is under) and the angle
of the screen is not very good, so if i have problem reading in a perfect position you can
imagine the result in a bad angle position.

The interface is ok but I missed the sound
monitoring ( you could see the variation of
the sound in a L E D type action on the M3 Xpanded )it was very useful.

I am not very happy with the combi's
they are not as inspiring as the M3 combi's
where, I know it's very personal , but I could
spend hours on a lot of combis in the m3
but not on the Kronos, only the D bank
was fun to use, but many of those combis
where on the M3. It's seems to me that
some drum beats are over used and that
the sound balance drum vs other instruments
is not very good, the drum are often much
to loud.
(the same with the drum track in the program
mode , all drum track have a 127 volume value , kind of weird)

I tried to use the ''screen pad '', not that
great, and I dont want to bang on my
screen so I bought a padkontrol from
Korg, and it work's great.

The audio output quality is great it's a big
improvement compare to the M3.
I read that the action was the same for the
M3 and the Kronos well I may be imagining
things but it dosen't feel the same to me,
I like the action of the Kronos very much.

I imagine that with the numbers of sound
in the programs banks, we will see some
third party offering new combi banks.

Padking
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9025
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the times when I buy a new synth I need some time to get used to the sounds, meaning that I am so used to my current synth and know exactly how it behaves that I need some time before I can really appreciate the new sounds. I hope the same will happen to you for the new Kronos.
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cello
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Location: Glasgow, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really appreciate the honesty in padking's post. Very objective.

I have what I call an 'OASYS 61' on order. I too struggle with the font size. I fully understand the dpi screen resolution differences between O and K but every GUI needs to be effective; the K struggles here. But I'm very familiar with the way it works so getting around is not a problem (with glasses!).

Sliders fine. Knobs fine. Buttons fine. Jog wheel - not fine. Really poor. Doesn't feel engaging at all; worse, it feels cheap.

Keyboard (61) - stiff, soul-less. (I had an M3-61 and I believe they're the same keys? But the M3 felt better for some reason - maybe it was just the demo model...)

Cosmetic look - good but commercial; looks very 'me too'.

Size/weight - great.

Maintaining my investment in programming O sounds - absolutely priceless.

Which is my #1 keyboard? The O without a shadow of a doubt. The K may have an expanded, upgraded O inside, but the K neither feels nor plays like the O. The O remains the Korg king (whether they like it or not!), or is that korg Kueen? Laughing
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