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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Randelph wrote: | It'd be great to have some insider knowledge about how Korg works!
I've heard the Oasys tech was started way back in the early 90's, and has been spun off in quite a few keyboards/tech: Prophecy, MOSS boards, Oasys pci card, etc., and most importantly, the Oasys and Kronos.
I wonder if even Korg knows exactly whether it made a profit on the Oasys, being that its been in development for so long. What I read about its development, is that they had the concept way back in the 90s, and have had to wait for technology to mature and be more affordable, which has finally happened.
My guess is that they took a basic gamble with the Oasys, knowing it was going to be to too pricey to compete price-wise with other workstations, so they made it luxurious, so there would be a fitting quality and price tag for getting the level of innovation it afforded. All with the knowledge that it would be the stepping stone to a cheaper, mass produced unit eventually.
Looks like an excellent strategy to me!
Randy |
Lets not confuse R&D with the implementation of a product release. R&D is a very separate arm of any large tech corp. There is a budget there of course, but its very intangible to say that a single stream of R&D output is necessarily dedicated to this or that product. So many things, not to mention patent's and copy rights, "belong" to the Company (not necessarily the product), and may find their way into many products (need I mention KLC along with OASYS as an example). So many other R&D things fall to the "cutting room floor". But once a project gets green lighted for a hardware release.....you know they are working an in depth pro-forma which taps these various resources, budgets for the production and distribution costs, and yields a *profit*. You base a project on nominal sales figures as a foundation for the existence of the project. Then, should you realize above-nominal results....its all good and adding to the success. You do NOT ink a project (for $8500 niche keyboards) that does not pencil into a profit under nominal conditions.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sani wrote: | | madbeatzyo111 wrote: | You could be right about that. I read somewhere that Korg sold about 4000 units which would work out to USD35mil, certainly not chump change.
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35mil USD certainly sounds good for 4000 units. It is just, that this is nowhere near the amount of money that Korg saw on their account.
Let's not forget the whole chain from production to the enduser:
buying the parts - manufacturing - shipping - big/national/regional seller - small seller/your local musicstore - taxes - enduser.
And here I'm not even counting the developing costs, the endless recording sessions to get the samples, the editing sessions to prepare and loop the waves, create multisamples, create patches, advertising, brochures, guarantee and probably some other things that also have to be paid.
The question is if they got even 3,5mil USD as a profit from the keyboard, after they paid their bills regarding Oasys.
I would consider the Oasys as a long time investment, that will create the most money (hopefully for Korg) now on the Kronos. |
Indeed....and Korg knows their unit cost-of-goods-sold and their unit net revenue. The odds of OASYS having been un-profitable are low.....HOW profitable it was, relative to any other product, is another story....and conjecture for any of us.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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PinkFloydDudi
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | | Randelph wrote: | It'd be great to have some insider knowledge about how Korg works!
I've heard the Oasys tech was started way back in the early 90's, and has been spun off in quite a few keyboards/tech: Prophecy, MOSS boards, Oasys pci card, etc., and most importantly, the Oasys and Kronos.
I wonder if even Korg knows exactly whether it made a profit on the Oasys, being that its been in development for so long. What I read about its development, is that they had the concept way back in the 90s, and have had to wait for technology to mature and be more affordable, which has finally happened.
My guess is that they took a basic gamble with the Oasys, knowing it was going to be to too pricey to compete price-wise with other workstations, so they made it luxurious, so there would be a fitting quality and price tag for getting the level of innovation it afforded. All with the knowledge that it would be the stepping stone to a cheaper, mass produced unit eventually.
Looks like an excellent strategy to me!
Randy |
Lets not confuse R&D with the implementation of a product release. R&D is a very separate arm of any large tech corp. There is a budget there of course, but its very intangible to say that a single stream of R&D output is necessarily dedicated to this or that product. So many things, not to mention patent's and copy rights, "belong" to the Company (not necessarily the product), and may find their way into many products (need I mention KLC along with OASYS as an example). So many other R&D things fall to the "cutting room floor". But once a project gets green lighted for a hardware release.....you know they are working an in depth pro-forma which taps these various resources, budgets for the production and distribution costs, and yields a *profit*. You base a project on nominal sales figures as a foundation for the existence of the project. Then, should you realize above-nominal results....its all good and adding to the success. You do NOT ink a project (for $8500 niche keyboards) that does not pencil into a profit under nominal conditions. |
Remember that time you said lets not speculate - and then spent the next 4 posts speculating?
=) |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| PinkFloydDudi wrote: |
Remember that time you said lets not speculate - and then spent the next 4 posts speculating?
=) |
Just engaging in the conversation, my friend, and *responding* to posts being made. And, IMHO, I'm not speculating....but admittedly, that statement is a bit speculative.... 
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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Subpar
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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so from the direction this thread is going, I guess there is NOTHING going on at summer NAMM....LOL
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L8r
Dustin
Aka Subpar |
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Jon Lord
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 452
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if Korg will be there to show more of the Kronos?
| Subpar wrote: | so from the direction this thread is going, I guess there is NOTHING going on at summer NAMM....LOL
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I heard there has been some major progress in the triangle field....
_________________
 - Download & share Korg keyboard patches for free.
Korg M3-73 (Radias Exb & Warwick "RC 21728 B" case), Clavia Nord Electro 3.
[On Hold]: Elka MK-88. [Sold]: Roland XP-30, Access Virus C
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon Lord wrote: | I wonder if Korg will be there to show more of the Kronos?
| Subpar wrote: | so from the direction this thread is going, I guess there is NOTHING going on at summer NAMM....LOL
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I heard there has been some major progress in the triangle field....
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Like a triangular flightcase for a triangle?
_________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Zeroesque
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 451
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Subpar wrote: | so from the direction this thread is going, I guess there is NOTHING going on at summer NAMM....LOL
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it would be a rare exception if there were.
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Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10 |
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RKfan
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 402
Location: Cambridge, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Well my tech sensors failed me..
http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=144217
Big Yamaaha presence but only new products are DTX drums and the poxy MOXes...
Looks like Korg are in the clear for a bit - unless there is some "off stand" things going on.... |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeroesque wrote: | | Subpar wrote: | so from the direction this thread is going, I guess there is NOTHING going on at summer NAMM....LOL
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it would be a rare exception if there were. |
Since soft synths are gaining more and more market space, it would not be good if there was not much news.
_________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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vstkeys
Full Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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wow I just read the link about yamaha news for summer namm.
Folks I am telling you that it will be years until Yamaha realise what they are doing and start catching up with korg.
The new PSR keyboard includes a flah ram of 16mb lollll . what a joke.
Gosh and they are advertising that as the ultimate invention.
Last night I had the opportunity to play the Mox 6 , I tell you OMG it is a extremelly light keyboard however the keys are the same as the cheapo PSR 423. I had the opportunite to play them side by side for more than 2 hours. The keybed on both are the same, because the mox has 8 elements in most sounds it doesn't quite feel that you are playing in the same cheapo key as a PSr single sampled. However with no volume both keybbeds felt absolutly the same. In australia that keyboard goes for a whooping $1.500. Good luck Yamaha , that keyboard in my opnion is not worth more the $700 |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon Lord wrote: | I heard there has been some major progress in the triangle field....
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Only from Roland. They will be demoing their new V-Triangle. MSRP is only $2199.00.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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sani
Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 354
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| vstkeys wrote: |
Last night I had the opportunity to play the Mox 6 , I tell you OMG it is a extremelly light keyboard however the keys are the same as the cheapo PSR 423. I had the opportunite to play them side by side for more than 2 hours. The keybed on both are the same, because the mox has 8 elements in most sounds it doesn't quite feel that you are playing in the same cheapo key as a PSr single sampled. However with no volume both keybbeds felt absolutly the same. In australia that keyboard goes for a whooping $1.500. Good luck Yamaha , that keyboard in my opnion is not worth more the $700 |
Let's be honest here. You should try a Triton Le or a Tr or even the Korg Karma keyboard which was price wise not very far from the Triton Classic. Even the M50 has crappy keys. That's what you get for the price. |
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EnjoyRC
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 746
Location: John 3:16
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the biggy for the show...
iKlip Mini... 
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/iklipmini/features/
_________________
Korg (Kronos 88, RK-100S 2), Behringer DeepMind 12, Roland (GAIA, A-800-Pro) |
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panrixx
Senior Member
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 448
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Good idea, providing you have very good eyesight 
_________________
Rhodes 73 Mk1; Kronos 88; Synthex; Electribe EMX-1; Motif XS Rack; Yamaha DX7IIFD; Yamaha MM8; Roland Alpha Juno-2; Roland JV-2080; Tascam FW-1884. |
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