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Jupiter 80....I bought it.....
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Devnor
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Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Lychee wrote:
I see what you are saying based on your question at Rolandclan. You are talking abut sharing settings and files? I haven't even thought about that because I don't see myself needing to do that, but I'll take a closer look after I get home today.


There does not seem to be a way to import a single tone, live set or registration from the USB drive. Only a full backup or restore. This is the crux of the file management issue.
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cello
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devnor wrote:
Bruce Lychee wrote:
I see what you are saying based on your question at Rolandclan. You are talking abut sharing settings and files? I haven't even thought about that because I don't see myself needing to do that, but I'll take a closer look after I get home today.


There does not seem to be a way to import a single tone, live set or registration from the USB drive. Only a full backup or restore. This is the crux of the file management issue.


I see that as easily accommodated by adopting an efficient workflow - which is actually a hell of a lot easier than on the OASYS/ Kronos.

On JP80, save all to USB. Take USB to Pc/Mac and then create a folder with the project or sound name. Put the saved file(s) in that folder. Do that every time you change stuff into different folders.

Then simply load up the files from the correct folder and you've got the sound(s) back.
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SanderXpander
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean to jump on the bitch-bandwagon, not having played the JP80 and all, but this seems a retarded way of having to do stuff. On nearly every synth with a file manager you can do this internally, without a computer. And even worse; What if you then have a sound you like in set A, but it needs to be combined with a sound from set B? It sounds like you can't, because you either load all of set A or all of set B.

On my extreme, I have pcgs per band, I load and save them accordingly. Then sometimes I'll need a sound from band one added to the setup of band two. Easy peasy, just browse the pcg and find it. Also, what will this mean for third party sound banks? When you load them you'll lose all of your own stuff?

Please correct me if I misunderstood something. If I didn't, this synth seems entirely unusable for me personally.
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Bruce Lychee
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synth tones you modify or create can be saved individually and placed into different registrations. SN acoustic tones are saved in the registrations. Registrations can be copied into other registration slots and parts can then be easily changed.

Personally, I love the workflow of the Jupiter.
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Devnor
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect it's obvious to everyone involved you can save things on the jupiter. As far as adopting YOUR workflow, that's another story. This has nothing to do with workflow. Its a simple question....can I take a tone or live set from one jupiter to another? If I make a killer patch how do I get it into YOUR machine?
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sani
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RonF wrote:
sani wrote:

I just say that there is nothing to be amazed about the fact that the company programmed 2000 or 2500 tones.


No....your Fantom G is an example of this....hundreds and hundreds of patches...but tons of redundancy and lackluster/unusable patches. Its always been a sore spot for me with the FG. On the other hand....what IS impressive, is the depth, diversity, variety, and sheer number of meticulously programmed patches on the JP80. Its the polar opposite of the FG, in this regard.


Yes, that's a great point. Some 80% of the patches on the FG are pure crap, fooling with clients and giving them for example 3 identical preset trumpet patches where one two have slightly different reverb and the third one has a delay. Not to mention those 83 piano patches with the same crappy approach.
That's the reason why I'm not amazed if they finally did at least the patch programming right instead of giving me ridiculous, same sounding patches. So I'm not negative but I'm not amazed that they finally did their job right.



RonF wrote:
The JP80 is not a workstation. It doesn't really have a file "system" as you describe, as compared to the Fantom G. You are 100% correct about the fiddly file system on the FG. For a workstation, with projects and sequencing, its pathetic. The JP80 is just a synth. Its file system is simply whats "on board". You can back up the status of the keyboard, and load the entire keyboard with a different set up...but thats it. What you get is what you set up on the keyboard within its patch system. Want to reinvent the keyboard set up...load a new set-up file. You can have unlimited set-ups. If 256 registrations is not sufficient for you to set up your keyboard for a single show.....then there is no further expansion possible. But, assuming that you can set up your show with less than 256 regs, then you will be fine. A "back up" is just a snap shot of the status of the keyboard. You can have multiple snap shots. However...I do see your point if you have created a patch in one back up file, and want to port it over to another back up file....not sure if you can load just one patch or not. Will have to explore at studio later.


Yes, the jp80 is not a workstation. But that absolutely doesn't mean that the user doesn't want or need to load individual files. Sorry I don't get it. You had that possibility on any Roland keyboard 10 years ago, regardless if it's been a workstation or just a module (jv, xv). And now suddenly it's not necessary because the jp80 is not a workstation? BTW, neither the FG has a proper filesystem. You can equally save just a whole project or load a whole project, but I won't discuss it here and now because it simply doesn't matter. It's the same crap. I'd rather not start to talk about the non existing multisample file on the FG where you can't load individual multi samples at all.
You can't even name the backup you created on the jp80. That's IMHO pathetic. You have to create manually folders on the computer to keep e record and avoid a mess about where is your dedicated file for a certain project.

cello wrote:
I see that as easily accommodated by adopting an efficient workflow - which is actually a hell of a lot easier than on the OASYS/ Kronos.


Sorry, but if executing the command "save all" on the Kronos/Oasys is so difficult for you and you see executing the command "backup" on the JP80 as a hell of a lot easier, maybe you should stop using digital keyboards at all.

cello wrote:
On JP80, save all to USB. Take USB to Pc/Mac and then create a folder with the project or sound name. Put the saved file(s) in that folder. Do that every time you change stuff into different folders.

Then simply load up the files from the correct folder and you've got the sound(s) back.


Let me rephrase the process on the JP80:
1. Execute "backup"
2. Put the usb stick onto the computer
3. Create a folder and give it a name
4. Copy the file into that folder

(do that for every different backup)

For loading files back to the JP80:

5. Put the usb stick to the computer
6. Erase an existing backup file on the usb stick (don't forget, they are all with the same name)
7. Copy the file from the desired folder onto the usb stick
8. Put the usb stick onto the jp80
9. Execute "Restore" (which isn't actually Restore because you don't restore, you load a new file, but let's be not so picky about what the terms mean. Let's be happy that Roland at least gave you restore/backup).

On the Kronos/Oasys you logically don't need a computer at all for this and your file names make sense to the user because it reflects what the file contains.

The jp80 understands backup and restore. It has to find the appropriate file probably on the root folder of the usb stick. You can't put just the folder with the file on the usb. Once you put the file on the usb, you don't know where it comes from and what it contains. You can't look just at the file name on the usb stick before you go to a show or gig because every file you created has the same name, something like backupjp80.svd . You can't have just a usb stick in your gig bag and load the files before the show. You have to do it at home and assure yourself that you have the correct data loaded into the keyboard. All this hassle because Roland removed a basic standard function which they used on any other keyboard 10 or 20 years ago.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have enjoyed the "file system" on the Fantom G. it should rather have been called a sickness than a file system.

That of the JP-80 is anything but much more intelligent. Just as Sani decribed the backup steps and the totally outdated and stupid naming conventions:

To use the term "workflow" in this context is daring, if not altogether ridiculous.
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Bruce Lychee
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devnor wrote:
With all due respect it's obvious to everyone involved you can save things on the jupiter. As far as adopting YOUR workflow, that's another story. This has nothing to do with workflow. Its a simple question....can I take a tone or live set from one jupiter to another? If I make a killer patch how do I get it into YOUR machine?


I answered the question asked, which did not have to do with file sharing. The person was clearly not aware that you could save certain sounds individually and use them in different registrations and others in the registration itself.
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Bruce Lychee
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:

To use the term "workflow" in this context is daring, if not altogether ridiculous.


I'm sorry. You are the only ridiculous thing around here. Do you have some emotional problem with the Jupiter because it sure seems like it?
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Sina172
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Lychee wrote:
Synth tones you modify or create can be saved individually and placed into different registrations. SN acoustic tones are saved in the registrations. Registrations can be copied into other registration slots and parts can then be easily changed.

Personally, I love the workflow of the Jupiter.

I don't mean sounds that you have in the synth at the time, obviously. I mean a sound or registration that you have in one "backup file" (I tried calling it "set A" but we already got confused) that you need to combine with a sound that's either currently in the keyboard or in another setup.

Let's say I have a sound/registration for a song in some backup file I meticulously archived on the computer. Currently I'm working on another soundset in the JP80. Now I think, hey the next sound I need would probably be that sound in my backup file. If I read all the above correctly, I cannot load just that one sound from my backup file and add it to the set I'm working in?

Sorry if I seem obtuse, but this is the information I got from the above posts.
Btw I have no opinion on the JP80s sound, I haven't played it. Just trying to figure out the workflow (word of the day?).
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rbox
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RonF wrote:
Rocness wrote:

Holy Sh!t ! This thing has over 2000 tones and over 2000 Live Sets . WOW!
The Jp-80 must have broken a recored for most sound in a hardware synth ever . I must have this synth Now and all of those pads sounds WoW !


But what JP80 does well, it does REALLY well. It has a sound that Kronos does not do. I really did some critical listening and programming this weekend. They are two totally different sounding keyboards. You can get a smooth pad on the Kronos...but it doesn't have the creamy sheen of the the JP80. JP80 gets THICK, without getting too full or crowded. Kronos cannot get "as" smooth without getting too full, by comparison.


Ron


Have you switched off the Effects how is the basic Soundcharacter of the Jp-80, maybe the creamy sheen came from a better Phasereffect that
gaves the Padssounds that Character. Digitalsystems have limited
Headroom so how create the Jp-80 the 256 Voices? Without clipping and
decreasing the Bandwith/Dynamic?
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RonF
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rbox wrote:

Have you switched off the Effects how is the basic Soundcharacter of the Jp-80, maybe the creamy sheen came from a better Phasereffect that
gaves the Padssounds that Character. Digitalsystems have limited
Headroom so how create the Jp-80 the 256 Voices? Without clipping and
decreasing the Bandwith/Dynamic?


If you read the OP and some other posts, you will see that I discussed exactly turning off the effects to see how it was affecting the "air", and to my surprise it was not the effects. I theorize it is the DSP and Convertors that bring that "airy" quality. Naturally, the effects, which sound outstanding, in particular the reverb, only add to that character.

I find the headroom is a non-issue in practice. I have loaded up a full compliment of tones in a registration, with a range of dynamics in those tones, and have had to make little to no adjustment to levels *due to clipping*, only for creative composition have I adjusted levels to taste. Its not a sequencer...so the polyphony does not extend to endless tracks....its about layering complex tones into dynamic combinations, and then playing 8 finger chords with them, with no voice allocation. Nice!
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cello
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop it RonF!! I don't have mine yet... Sad
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Rocness
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RonF wrote:
[.its about layering complex tones into dynamic combinations, and then playing 8 finger chords with them, with no voice allocation. Nice!

starting to sound like my dream synth Very Happy
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