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For those that have not heard the insanity that is MS-20
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RonF
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:

After all I heard so far, the JP-80 Oscillators and filters sound nearly lame in comparison. They may be good for some pads and synth brass made fat by layering, but as far as I can judge from the available demos, they are competely missing the grit and the punch (not speaking of the MUCH better resonsance filtering) of the Kronos VAs!


Exactly like the original JP-8 as compared to the original MS20. So totally different in character. JP-8 was always "smooth" and bright in character, vs MS20 grit and punch. Not to mention Mono vs Poly in the originals...which led, I think, to Roland designing JP8 more on how its oscillators blended in a polyphonic patch, vs the MS20 which needed to sound BIG solely on its oscillators-per-patch.

They are two totally different beasts in the original......modeled now years later to virtually replicate (if not improve upon) the original.

I think the better comparison might be the MS20 against the Voyager, myself (still, MS20 would win for Grit). But none the less, I see your point, because these are all very different to taste.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now imagine Kronos combis relying on three VAs with a distinct flavor, like the lush and warm Polysix, the gritty and punchy MS-20, and the AL1 somewhere in between in sound character, while the latter is offering huge possibilities reminding of modular synths.

The JP-80 may be closer in sound to some Roland traditions it tries to mimic, but the Kronos definitely covers a much broader area of sonic possibilities of VA power:
- it has it all from warmth to grid, and you could anytime play 3 or 4 layer combis, making use of this unmatched variety in polyphonic play. The JP-80 has neither such a wide scope in sound (with JP-80 filters covering not more than around one third of the way to self oscillation according to testers) nor such a depth in programming features.

I guess we have just touched the tip of the iceberg by using the Kronos VA factory sounds. Very Happy


Last edited by jimknopf on Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Vlad_77
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aron,

All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, one more thing: it STILL isn't "Final Countdown". (j/k)

Well done!!!


Ahimsa,
Vlad
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kimu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great Aron! very very nice analog-ish sounds!

since at the moment kronos is out of reach as well as real MS-20, i will have a check for the legacy collection...
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RonF
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:

The JP-80 may be closer in sound to some Roland traditions it tries to mimic, but the Kronos definitely covers a much broader area of sonic possibilities of VA power:


100% agree!

Quote:
with JP-80 filters covering not more than around one third of the way to self oscillation according to testers


I don't know where that is coming from. I haven't done a scientific test or anything....but that is not what I am hearing to my ears. FWIW.

Quote:
The JP-80 has neither such a wide scope in sound nor such a depth in programming features.


No it does not! Agreed.
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is fantastic - can't wait for mine.

It's good to know that I'll be able to retire my MS2000BR - this right here is basically the sound that I use that for.
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My Music
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aron
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kronos makes my Sequential Pro One sound mellow. I think it even makes my Micro Moog seem totally tame in comparison.
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RonF
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aron wrote:
The Kronos makes my Sequential Pro One sound mellow. I think it even makes my Micro Moog seem totally tame in comparison.


Kronos does have a harder (a good thing in this respect) output stage than my Moog Voyager. But I sense it on most programs, not just MS20. Its part of the Kronos character....its "sharp"....more than "warm" to my ears. It has some bite....and really cuts into a mix well.
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EXer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

____



____Amazing! ____



____
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Morten'J
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Now imagine Kronos combis relying on three VAs with a distinct flavor, like the lush and warm Polysix, the gritty and punchy MS-20, and the AL1 somewhere in between in sound character, while the latter is offering huge possibilities reminding of modular synths.

The JP-80 may be closer in sound to some Roland traditions it tries to mimic, but the Kronos definitely covers a much broader area of sonic possibilities of VA power:
- it has it all from warmth to grid, and you could anytime play 3 or 4 layer combis, making use of this unmatched variety in polyphonic play. The JP-80 has neither such a wide scope in sound (with JP-80 filters covering not more than around one third of the way to self oscillation according to testers) nor such a depth in programming features.

I guess we have just touched the tip of the iceberg by using the Kronos VA factory sounds. Very Happy


Funny about JP 80 why no Sync ,Gaia has sync it looks like same just with 350 samples and Supersaw detune.

I played Korg Kronos and big Wow I played mostly HD1,AL1,MS20,Polysix and MOD 7 and they are great and in Combi mode more Wow.

MOD7 can also do some wild synth sounds like syncleads.


Look forward to Karo MOOG Taurus bass samples
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kimu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RonF wrote:
aron wrote:
The Kronos makes my Sequential Pro One sound mellow. I think it even makes my Micro Moog seem totally tame in comparison.


Kronos does have a harder (a good thing in this respect) output stage than my Moog Voyager. But I sense it on most programs, not just MS20. Its part of the Kronos character....its "sharp"....more than "warm" to my ears. It has some bite....and really cuts into a mix well.


I admit that still have to try kronos but my voyager sounds more analog and fat than the very good mp3 linked at the beginning...
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Morten'j.
Does the JP80 have no oscillator sync?
I can hardly imagine that. Any real VA has.

You probably mean the pcm based patches? Just don't have the JP80 manual in reach.

@kimu: My Voyager also has more fat warmth. But that was the difference between the original MS-20 and the Minimoog as well. The great thing is to get the gritty MS-20 sound with a lot of analog-like character. But that reminds me how well I could control my Voyager RME by the Kronos, and play routing the Voyager outs into the Kronos inputs.
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Morten'J
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
@Morten'j.
Does the JP80 have no oscillator sync?
I can hardly imagine that. Any real VA has.

You probably mean the pcm based patches? Just don't have the JP80 manual in reach.

@kimu: My Voyager also has more fat warmth. But that was the difference between the original MS-20 and the Minimoog as well. The great thing is to get the gritty MS-20 sound with a lot of analog-like character. But that reminds me how well I could control my Voyager RME by the Kronos, and play routing the Voyager outs into the Kronos inputs.


I have the brochue with JP80 from Frankfurt Musicmesse ,and I just look in the manual it only say Ring Mod ,I think you have to use sampled sync osc like HD1
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't that raise doubts about the stated real VA oscillators (I mean oscillating in contrast to pcm waves)?

You find me confused.
RonF, can you clarify?
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Morten'J
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Wouldn't that raise doubts about the stated real VA oscillators (I mean oscillating in contrast to pcm waves)?

You find me confused.
RonF, can you clarify?


That is why I get a Kronos and just love Karo Movie with Elka Synthex and Roland MKS 80 samples just sound great and the laserharp.
I was near buying a Elka Synthex for 4500$ few months ago.

I find Kronos great for Jan Hammer,Kitaro,Vangelis,Jarre style music
Jan Hammer did sell his MemoryMOOG,Fairlight,Roland Jupiter 8 and get Korg's maybe he use Kronos or Oasys today.Saw Tears for Fears have a Oasys.

and I ask Kurt if he could sample his MOOG Taurus MK1 ,and he did KTB Karo Taurus Bass will be out soon for Kronos.

I just keep my Gaia and use my SonicCell as Effectprocessor for it.
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