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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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 Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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They are amazing...and can get LOUD!
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Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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madbeatzyo111
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Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 379
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shap
Full Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Per my other thread, you definitely need a subwoofer to get good quality piano sound out of a Kronos or any.other synthesizer.
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Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
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chilly7
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 821
Location: planet Earth
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Bertotti
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a set of the KRK RP5 and the QSC K10. With music the KRK tend to fatigue my ears the QSC do not but it has been suggested it is because when using the KRK I am listening much more intensely. The KRK do get a bit flubby with my wavedrum at any real volume the QSC just nock the tone out of the ball park. I have not tried a Kronos through either, I don't have one yet. |
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Slovenec
Full Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:22 am Post subject: |
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I can also recommend the KRK Rokit monitors. I have the original Rokit 8s and they are fantastic monitors for what they're worth. The newer versions are a big step up in sound quality from what I've heard so you really can't go wrong with them in your room.
If you want something more like a compact PA, check out the Yamaha Stagepas systems. The bigger one is the Stagepas 500 and it packs a nice punch for a little PA. I'd also steer away from dedicated keyboard amps for your particular needs. You could look at a pair of Quest QS200i 8" active compact speakers. These have an amazing sound for their size.
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MIDITEK MUSIC PRODUCTION RECORDING & TUITION- albums, demos, jingles. Recording, arranging & mixing. |
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orpheus2006
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 597
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Apropos subwoofer: RCF announced a new series of studio monitors including a 10" sub with very attractive pricing. Unfortunately they are not yet available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5c5AHoB2s
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www.soundcloud.com/orpheus2006
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Korg M3-88 w/ EXB-Radias, Yamaha Motif Rack w/ PLG150-AN & PLG150-DR, Novation A-Station, RME Multiface II Audio Interface, Thinkpad T60 Notebook w/ Sonar X3 and various VSTi, Event TR8 monitors, Beyerdynamic DT-770 headphones |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| shap wrote: | | Per my other thread, you definitely need a subwoofer to get good quality piano sound out of a Kronos or any.other synthesizer. |
That would imply that no good quality sound is possible from systems without subwoofers. I'm afraid that's going to be a hard sell, and speaking from both a personal and professional standpoint, I don't agree.
- Dan
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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shap
Full Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 194
Location: US northwest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | shap wrote: | | Per my other thread, you definitely need a subwoofer to get good quality piano sound out of a Kronos or any.other synthesizer. |
That would imply that no good quality sound is possible from systems without subwoofers. I'm afraid that's going to be a hard sell, and speaking from both a personal and professional standpoint, I don't agree.
- Dan |
Umm.. No, respectfully that's not what I said. I referred specifically to piano sounds, not to sounds in general. Perhaps I should have emphasized that I was talking "in studio" here, but since the thread topic is monitors rather than PA scenarios, I didn't think that was necessary. The problem at its most basic is that conventional monitors have limited response below 42hz. There aren't many instruments that go down there, but double bass and piano are among them. I wouldn't expect any issue for instruments that aren't quite so deep into the bass end of the range.
My experience on both the JBL LSR 4300 monitors and the Adam A7's was that the low end was inadequate on both the Motif XF and the Kronos 88 in the absence of a subwoofer. The deficiencies were very plain to hear. It doesn't take a side-by-side comparison to make the difference very immediate. It does depend a bit on what you mean by "good". For the sampled pianos, my metric for "good" is pretty simple: do they sound like the real thing? That's more or less the point of sampling the pianos, so it seems like a reasonable metric. The answer, absent a subwoofer, is "not even close".
But this wouldn't be the first time that you turn out to know something I don't, so perhaps you can explain what you are thinking about. How do you get a decent sounding low end and/or the characteristic growl of a piano out of the piano samples when your monitors don't reproduce those frequencies?
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Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
Border Collies + Misc. Squeaky Toys |
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Jeremy Bender
Full Member
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 111
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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In connection with this topic I would welcome some thoughts please.
I currently have my keyboards inc my Kronos 88 running through an old Soundcraft Spirit folio mixer into a Pioneer A400 hifi amp (100 watts) powering some old Mourdant Short hifi speakers (they are fairly large with reasonable bass extension - for hifi...).
I expect this will prompt some laughter but it does sound ok.
I listened to some KRK Rokit 8 monitors last week in store with a K61 and it sounded very good but just wondered what views people have on how much an improvement some decent monitors may make (if any).
I don't really want to have to get a subwoofer if I can help it
Danatkorg - what do you use out of interest?
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Korg Kronos 88, Korg M3 61 with Radias EXP, DSI Prophet 6,Moog Voyager, Korg MS-20 kit, Korg Wavestation SR, Korg M3R, Korg Legacy Collection, Roland JV1080, Roland D10, EDP Wasp, Roland TR606 Drumatix, Ableton Live, Ableton Push |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| shap wrote: | | danatkorg wrote: | | shap wrote: | | Per my other thread, you definitely need a subwoofer to get good quality piano sound out of a Kronos or any.other synthesizer. |
That would imply that no good quality sound is possible from systems without subwoofers. I'm afraid that's going to be a hard sell, and speaking from both a personal and professional standpoint, I don't agree.
- Dan |
Umm.. No, respectfully that's not what I said. I referred specifically to piano sounds, not to sounds in general. |
To put my response another way, if pianos don't sound good, then a sound system has failed in the general case. But, this seems like merely a semantic disagreement.
| shap wrote: | | Perhaps I should have emphasized that I was talking "in studio" here, but since the thread topic is monitors rather than PA scenarios, I didn't think that was necessary. The problem at its most basic is that conventional monitors have limited response below 42hz. |
My great but not particularly esoteric HR824s are nominally flat (within 1.5dB) down to 39Hz, and extending below that naturally; the more recent mkII version claims a little lower for flat response, down to 37Hz.
These will accurately produce the fundamentals of piano notes down to low D# (coincidentally the lowest note that I generally use on acoustic pianos, quite separate from my studio monitors). At such low pitches on the piano, the fundamentals are generally significantly quieter than the overtones; there appears to be some question about how important those ultra-low fundamentals are, since our brains generate the "phantom fundamental" by themselves based on the higher harmonics.
You mention "growl;" this seems like it would be in the harmonics, much higher than the sub-bass.
| shap wrote: | | My experience on both the JBL LSR 4300 monitors and the Adam A7's was that the low end was inadequate on both the Motif XF and the Kronos 88 in the absence of a subwoofer. The deficiencies were very plain to hear. It doesn't take a side-by-side comparison to make the difference very immediate. It does depend a bit on what you mean by "good". For the sampled pianos, my metric for "good" is pretty simple: do they sound like the real thing? That's more or less the point of sampling the pianos, so it seems like a reasonable metric. The answer, absent a subwoofer, is "not even close". |
In that case, I'd seriously suggest treating your room. Standing waves can have quite dramatic effects, causing both extreme peaks and extreme nulls. Bass traps can be extremely helpful in reducing these problems.
I understand that it is possible to set up a great audio system using a subwoofer, and that there are situations in which one or more subs are necessary. I also understand that subs can simply make the audio more impressive, and that this may be pleasant to listen to. However, subs also introduce additional variables into the monitoring setup, including crossovers and multiple speaker placement, which can easily cause more problems. Also, in a room with bass problems, a sub will just add more energy to the existing peaks and nulls.
Put another way: a sub may be the icing on the cake, but if it seems like it's making the difference between bad and good, that would indicate acoustic problems which should be addressed before worrying further about the transducer side of the equation.
In general, unless you need a sub for a specific purpose (for instance, if you're mixing for 5.1 delivery), I think the best approach is to start with room treatment and a good pair of powered nearfields.
Hope this helps,
- Dan
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I'm wondering also if distance from the speakers perhaps makes a difference while playing. In my (untreated) room, I normally don't hear much sub bass until I move at least an additional meter back from my normal working position. My monitors are Dynaudio BM5As and while they are small and don't offer very good accuracy in the low end, for the size of my room they definitely add enough sub oomph for my pianos. Especially when I move back a bit.
That said, in relation to piano sound I don't think any digital instrument is ever going to replicate the feel of actually playing a grand. In recordings (especially "in the mix" ) it already has been hard to tell the difference for quite a while. |
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Arjan
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | My great but not particularly esoteric HR824s are nominally flat (within 1.5dB) down to 39Hz, and extending below that naturally; the more recent mkII version claims a little lower for flat response, down to 37Hz. |
I have to agree with Dan here. I too have Mackie HR824's (original version) and I definitely don't need a sub with them; they go plenty low and loud as-is for their intended purpose as near-field speakers in a studio environment.
For my live rig I do have dedicated subs because at high SPL (higher than you'd ever use in a studio) you won't be able to get sufficient level for low frequencies from an 8" woofer; it's simply not able to displace sufficient amounts of air. You can certainly go extremely low on 8" speakers but there's a limit to how loud you can get it without ridiculously high speaker excursion. |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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For live I use 2 JBL Eon10 active speakers (old ones). Some say you need 15" at least but I don't like too much weight 
For home I ordered KRK G5 Rokit ... going to install it tonight.
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panrixx
Senior Member
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 448
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: | | For home I ordered KRK G5 Rokit ... going to install it tonight. |
Do you mean KRK G2 Rokit 5 (RP5)?
Have have those and have no complaints.
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Rhodes 73 Mk1; Kronos 88; Synthex; Electribe EMX-1; Motif XS Rack; Yamaha DX7IIFD; Yamaha MM8; Roland Alpha Juno-2; Roland JV-2080; Tascam FW-1884. |
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