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PCG Tools for Kronos(X), Krome, Oasys,M3/M50,Tritons, ...
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: PCG and Kronos 88 LS Reply with quote

Guttalaser wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:


So I'm afraid you have to do the sample handling yourself like you did. It's hard to say why the Brass samples did not work while others do. PCG Tools just does not change samples, these are contained in the KSC etc files.


Tnx Michel for your fast answer!

Ok, gotcha!
So, in other words, if i understand well, the PCG Tools (for now) is primary intended for the internal factory sound set and PCG and not for the KSC and EXs expansion (actually: can works but - for some reason - cannot work too!)

It's that right?


Not necessarily ... it is intended for ALL PCG files. However, if using samples not from the internal factory sound set, you have to add these KSC files yourself to the global auto load set.
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Guttalaser



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: PCG and Kronos 88 LS Reply with quote

edited
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KORG KRONOS 88 LS + nanoPAD2
Libraries: EXS102; Exs108; EXS109; EXS091; EXS019; EXS024; EXS049; EXS097; EXS116; EXS122; EXS131; EXS132; EXS133; EXS134; EXS135; EXS138; EXS139; EXS220; KRS071; KRS077; EXS056; EXS063; KRS059; Exs010; Exs011; Exs012; EXS014; EXS016; EXS017; EXS018; KRS01; KRS02; KRS03; KRS04; KRS05; KRS06; KRS06B; KRS07; EXS085; Exs086; KRS085; EXS040; EXS041; EXS042; EXS151; EXS155; EXS191; EXS193; EXS194; EXS067; EXS150; EXS222; EXS223; EXS224; EXS225; EXS226; The Endless Floyd Anthology Rev.B; PF Cover Pack MkII; One Vision Cover Pack; 80s Cover Pack; ToTo Cover Pack; Complete Cover Collection V2; JD8 Project Rev.2; DX Synth Pack.


Last edited by Guttalaser on Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Guttalaser



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG and Kronos 88 LS Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:

Not necessarily ... it is intended for ALL PCG files. However, if using samples not from the internal factory sound set, you have to add these KSC files yourself to the global auto load set.


UPDATE:
Ok... i'm an idiot! It works!!! Was my fault: loaded the wrong KSC for the brass!
SO: yes... PCG Tools can manage and mix patches from the expansions EXs and KRS.
But for the EXs need to load (append) all the KSC related to the PCGs you mixed in your custom PCG.

This introduce a limit i think:
if your custom PCG contains patches from many EXs the risk is that the virtual memory can't load all those KSCs.
The workaround is to build a custom KSC too (maybe Korg Creator can do that, dunno), so you can put inside the KSC only the samples related to you custom PCG.

But the relation/childhood between the patches in the PCG have to be be the same.
So one must know:
1) The "footprint" (in size) on the virtual memory of each EXs (this is for the easy way loading/append all the FULL KSC your custom PCG needs)
2) what specific samples every patches uses
3) how to build the custom KSC with all the correct relationship with the patches in the custom PCG.

What you think about that? Any ideas on how perform the 3 steps above?
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KORG KRONOS 88 LS + nanoPAD2
Libraries: EXS102; Exs108; EXS109; EXS091; EXS019; EXS024; EXS049; EXS097; EXS116; EXS122; EXS131; EXS132; EXS133; EXS134; EXS135; EXS138; EXS139; EXS220; KRS071; KRS077; EXS056; EXS063; KRS059; Exs010; Exs011; Exs012; EXS014; EXS016; EXS017; EXS018; KRS01; KRS02; KRS03; KRS04; KRS05; KRS06; KRS06B; KRS07; EXS085; Exs086; KRS085; EXS040; EXS041; EXS042; EXS151; EXS155; EXS191; EXS193; EXS194; EXS067; EXS150; EXS222; EXS223; EXS224; EXS225; EXS226; The Endless Floyd Anthology Rev.B; PF Cover Pack MkII; One Vision Cover Pack; 80s Cover Pack; ToTo Cover Pack; Complete Cover Collection V2; JD8 Project Rev.2; DX Synth Pack.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG and Kronos 88 LS Reply with quote

Guttalaser wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:

Not necessarily ... it is intended for ALL PCG files. However, if using samples not from the internal factory sound set, you have to add these KSC files yourself to the global auto load set.


UPDATE:
Ok... i'm an idiot! It works!!! Was my fault: loaded the wrong KSC for the brass!
SO: yes... PCG Tools can manage and mix patches from the expansions EXs and KRS.
But for the EXs need to load (append) all the KSC related to the PCGs you mixed in your custom PCG.

This introduce a limit i think:
if your custom PCG contains patches from many EXs the risk is that the virtual memory can't load all those KSCs.
The workaround is to build a custom KSC too (maybe Korg Creator can do that, dunno), so you can put inside the KSC only the samples related to you custom PCG.

But the relation/childhood between the patches in the PCG have to be be the same.
So one must know:
1) The "footprint" (in size) on the virtual memory of each EXs (this is for the easy way loading/append all the FULL KSC your custom PCG needs)
2) what specific samples every patches uses
3) how to build the custom KSC with all the correct relationship with the patches in the custom PCG.

What you think about that? Any ideas on how perform the 3 steps above?


I'm glad it worked.

About your solution: that is correct. I'm also aware KSC files should be able to be read, but I in principle do not have much time to spend on PCG Tools anymore (I will release though a new release this weekend probably).

About the steps:
1. You need indeed to read all KSC files, maybe the sample size of each sample is already in that file, never checked.
2. This information is already in the PCG file but PCG Tools does not check the sample indices and banks.

Some problems:
- Each Kronos PCG file has a version and sample handling is quite different using either indices for sample banks/samples or UUIDs).
- Other workstations using samples also need to be taken into account (Oasys, Triton, M3 I think etc). They all have their own different ways of sample structure inside a program.
- Sometimes files may not be present, e.g. for Kronos, I don't know if all KSC and sample files are accessible. I also don't know for other workstation models.

The code can be downloaded from the PCG Tools website, so you can try it yourself.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear PCG Tools users,

Despite my last announcement that I would stop developing PCG Tools there were a few bugs to be fixed. Therefore this new version.
Most important: fixed Program reference changer (for converting older PCG files for Kronos to newer versions) and full/improved support for microSTATION PCG files.

See website: http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl

Code:
===   Version 2.9.0  Date: Sep 22, 2017

Improv  : List generator patch files optionally contain columns for set list slot reference ID and name.
Improv  : List generator file names now include the name of the PCG/source file.
Improv  : Exported Cubase files now include the name of the PCG/source file.
Improv  : Exported files from the song window now include the name of the SNG file.
Improv  : For all above items, whenever not set, the MyDocuments folder will be applied correctly.
Bug Fix : Program Reference Changer now only handles each patch once.
Bug Fix : Prevented crash when clearing duplicate set list slots [KRONOS ONLY].
Bug Fix : For the Browse button in the list generator, the correct folder will be used.
Bug Fix : When All Patches is selected, drum kits/patterns and wave sequences are copied too.
Links   : Created a special screen for people creating instructional (youtube) videos of PCG Tools.
Links   : Updated several donators properties due to donations (thanks!).
Install : Improved installer to reduce installer problems on certain computers.

Kind regards,

Michel Keijzers (developer of PCG Tools)
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bobmusic
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
I don't have a Mac, so I cannot reproduce the problem. Is it possible you send the PCG files (where you copy from, where you copy to) to me and describe exactly what did to crash the program?
It depends on the PCG type/version if you can copy, but it should never crash.


Hello Michel, thanks for the reply. I tried again, the program didn't crash, but the process of copying combinations never finishes. When I exit copying, only the Combination was copied, not the extra needed programs.
The other Timbres were assigned correctly, of course, so that was a help already.
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Guttalaser



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: PCG and Kronos 88 LS Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:

but I in principle do not have much time to spend on PCG Tools anymore (I will release though a new release this weekend probably).


Sad to hear this Man! Just in time when i'm start using your great progz!
But is your decision... so...

michelkeijzers wrote:
1. You need indeed to read all KSC files, maybe the sample size of each sample is already in that file, never checked.


Maybe yes, but the "real" sample size is bigger than the ram "footprint" when you load the samples with the "virtual memory" option (that is the best way if one don't need to make "on-board" deep editing on the samples itself).
With the "virtual memory" option the Kronos load only a little slice of the samples and the rest are streamed directly from the SSD.

In some cases the specific EXs manual report the virtual memory needs of the KSC library, in other don't.

The only way i can imagine is to load one by one the libraries and write down the required virtual memory size (is in the pop-up menu when you hit "load").

michelkeijzers wrote:

2. This information is already in the PCG file but PCG Tools does not check the sample indices and banks.


It's strange that you don't drilled down into the samples referencing of a patch (dunno if this referencies table is at PCG leve or at patch level).
I can only suppose that must be something like the patches/combi referencies that PCG Tools can export in many ways.


michelkeijzers wrote:

The code can be downloaded from the PCG Tools website, so you can try it yourself.


Eheheheh there is only ONE Michel Keijzers... Wink
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KORG KRONOS 88 LS + nanoPAD2
Libraries: EXS102; Exs108; EXS109; EXS091; EXS019; EXS024; EXS049; EXS097; EXS116; EXS122; EXS131; EXS132; EXS133; EXS134; EXS135; EXS138; EXS139; EXS220; KRS071; KRS077; EXS056; EXS063; KRS059; Exs010; Exs011; Exs012; EXS014; EXS016; EXS017; EXS018; KRS01; KRS02; KRS03; KRS04; KRS05; KRS06; KRS06B; KRS07; EXS085; Exs086; KRS085; EXS040; EXS041; EXS042; EXS151; EXS155; EXS191; EXS193; EXS194; EXS067; EXS150; EXS222; EXS223; EXS224; EXS225; EXS226; The Endless Floyd Anthology Rev.B; PF Cover Pack MkII; One Vision Cover Pack; 80s Cover Pack; ToTo Cover Pack; Complete Cover Collection V2; JD8 Project Rev.2; DX Synth Pack.
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manouchehrmail



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to develop my own application to read different file types which make a SET; for example reading out all information from "STY", "PCG", "PRF", "PCM", "PAD", "KMP", "GBL", and "VOC" files.
Where to ask for detailed information about this topic. Please do not refer me to the regional distributors in Germany because although I live in Germany but I want to get English support.

I would appreciate any guide, documentation, or correct contact person to ask.

Best Regards,
Manu
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Guttalaser



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manouchehrmail wrote:
I want to develop my own application to read different file types which make a SET; for example reading out all information from "STY", "PCG", "PRF", "PCM", "PAD", "KMP", "GBL", and "VOC" files.
Where to ask for detailed information about this topic. Please do not refer me to the regional distributors in Germany because although I live in Germany but I want to get English support.

I would appreciate any guide, documentation, or correct contact person to ask.

Best Regards,
Manu


Hi Manu,
not sure why your post is here and what are your needs.

I can't give you any technical support about files and programming, but i can support you - if you need it - about the hierarchical Kronos's files structure and the parent/childhood link between the kind of Kronos files.
And - last but not least - i can tell you the expectations from a user p.o.v.

The final goal in my mind is:
to build custom sounds libraries (PCGs and related files and samples) from all the existing expansions EXs using - for each sound - only the necessary and related samples, so the size of the custo library - when loaded in the virtual memory - don't exceed the max virtual memory of the Kronos 2.
_________________
____________________________________
KORG KRONOS 88 LS + nanoPAD2
Libraries: EXS102; Exs108; EXS109; EXS091; EXS019; EXS024; EXS049; EXS097; EXS116; EXS122; EXS131; EXS132; EXS133; EXS134; EXS135; EXS138; EXS139; EXS220; KRS071; KRS077; EXS056; EXS063; KRS059; Exs010; Exs011; Exs012; EXS014; EXS016; EXS017; EXS018; KRS01; KRS02; KRS03; KRS04; KRS05; KRS06; KRS06B; KRS07; EXS085; Exs086; KRS085; EXS040; EXS041; EXS042; EXS151; EXS155; EXS191; EXS193; EXS194; EXS067; EXS150; EXS222; EXS223; EXS224; EXS225; EXS226; The Endless Floyd Anthology Rev.B; PF Cover Pack MkII; One Vision Cover Pack; 80s Cover Pack; ToTo Cover Pack; Complete Cover Collection V2; JD8 Project Rev.2; DX Synth Pack.
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manouchehrmail



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the prompt reply. My target devices are PA series however. I don't know if there are similarities between them and Kronos series. I would appreciate your support about them anyway. Maybe it helps me to understand more details about it. My email is "fg.ece.ut@gmail.com" or "manouchehrmail@yahoo.com". I appreciate your time again.

BR
Manu
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manouchehrmail wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply. My target devices are PA series however. I don't know if there are similarities between them and Kronos series. I would appreciate your support about them anyway. Maybe it helps me to understand more details about it. My email is "fg.ece.ut@gmail.com" or "manouchehrmail@yahoo.com". I appreciate your time again.

BR
Manu


There are not that many similarities.

The problems I found out when I wanted (long time ago) to add PA (arranger) support to PCG Tools:

- I think many PA users do not care much about PCG files anyway
- Documentation in the form of system MIDI exclusive documents are non-existent
- Korg USA/Inc which has been a great help did not have much information
- It seems Korg Italy is more involved with PA
- They give the documentation to a team that made the PA arranger
- I never could get in contact with Korg Italy
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manouchehrmail



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your considerations. I needed to ask the same question in different forums.

BR
Manu
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manouchehrmail wrote:
I appreciate your considerations. I needed to ask the same question in different forums.

BR
Manu


No problem (in case you find 'free' documentation about the PA, please let me know. And of course good luck with your program.

The code of PCG Tools can be downloaded and can give you a good insight in the PCG file format.
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manouchehrmail



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, sure. Thanks a lot.

BR
Manu
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear PCG Tools users,

A new version of PCG Tools can be downloaded at http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl.

The most important improvement is the support for the new Korg Kross 2.
Also some crashes have been fixed for various other models.

See below for details.

Kind regards,

Michel Keijzers (developer of PCG Tools)

Code:

===   Version 3.0.0   Date: 03-Nov-2017
Support : Added support for Korg Kross 2.
Bug Fix : Prevented crash when copying certain Kronos/Oasys/M3/M50 patches.
Bug Fix : Prevented crash while loading certain Korg Oasys PCG files.
Bug Fix : Fixed name of internal drum kit bank name for Korg Kross (1).
Links   : Added Dan Stesco, Audora and Synthesaurus.

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