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Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys?
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quariyune



Joined: 16 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

Hi all!

I've owned my korg kronos for a few years now but I've mainly used it as a piano so I don't really have much experience with there rest of the system. With that being said, I've been recently having a problem where notes that I've sustained or that I'm holding just cut off.

For instance, if I hold down a key, I hear the note, but after a second the sound just disappears even if I'm still holding down the note. The same thing happens if I just press the key and hold down my sustain pedal.

When I start up my kronos, it might be fine at the start and then start doing this weird cutoff, or it could just straight up boot with this cutoff problem. I haven't really found anything that triggers this sort of cutoff, however there have been a few times where it works fine and I play either a bigger chord or fast moving section and the cutoff starts happening. For the most part though it's completely random and I'm baffled as to the cause.

I'm not too sure if this is a hardware/software malfunction with my kronos, as it used to work just fine but only recently started displaying this odd problem. I haven't changed anything recently other than switching headphones to earphones (The earphones work fine for any sort of audio on my computer).

I'm wondering if anyone else has experience this problem? I've been trying to figure it out and even did a full factory restore to no avail.


EDIT: I would also like to add that I've tried it with the pedal unplugged and I've tried switching earphones/headphones and it still happens. I've even tried just restarting the kronos a bunch of times and it's the same thing. I wish this is just some sort of bug that's known with the kronos and that all it takes to fix it is a patch via usb or something, but I'm just hoping it's not like a hardware issue where I have to turn it into the shop and pay a bunch of repair bills.


EDIT2: here is a clip that I finally managed to figure out how to record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhSxYrVk600&feature=youtu.be


When it cuts off there's sometimes also a static-like noise. It doesn't happen that much near the beginning, but near the end it's extremely easy to tell when I'm playing the 5 of a 1-4-5-1 progression.


Last edited by quariyune on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

quariyune wrote:
Hi all!



When I start up my kronos, it might be fine at the start and then start doing this weird cutoff, or it could just straight up boot with this cutoff problem.


not following this. clarify

more details. In combi mode ? boot with USB devices ? how is your sustain pedal set up in global ? what sustain pedal ? what OS ? did u change or do anything different preceding the occurrence of the problem ?
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quariyune



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
quariyune wrote:
Hi all!



When I start up my kronos, it might be fine at the start and then start doing this weird cutoff, or it could just straight up boot with this cutoff problem.


not following this. clarify

more details. In combi mode ? boot with USB devices ? how is your sustain pedal set up in global ? what sustain pedal ? what OS ? did u change or do anything different preceding the occurrence of the problem ?


I haven't made any changes to the kronos so it would be just booting up normally, and the default kronos OS. Switching modes doesn't seem to remove the problem as it still persists in prog/seq/sample/etc. I haven't changed anything when the problem started appearing. I'm using one of korg's pedals (doesn't say what the model is on it), but I don't think it's a problem with the pedal since the same thing still happens without the pedal plugged in.

What I was trying to say in that snippet was that the problem seems to happen at random. It's not like 5 mins after booting up the problem appears or something. Sometimes the problem is there as soon as I boot it up, other times after I play for a bit.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

quariyune wrote:
GregC wrote:
quariyune wrote:
Hi all!



When I start up my kronos, it might be fine at the start and then start doing this weird cutoff, or it could just straight up boot with this cutoff problem.


not following this. clarify

more details. In combi mode ? boot with USB devices ? how is your sustain pedal set up in global ? what sustain pedal ? what OS ? did u change or do anything different preceding the occurrence of the problem ?


I haven't made any changes to the kronos so it would be just booting up normally, and the default kronos OS. Switching modes doesn't seem to remove the problem as it still persists in prog/seq/sample/etc. I haven't changed anything when the problem started appearing. I'm using one of korg's pedals (doesn't say what the model is on it), but I don't think it's a problem with the pedal since the same thing still happens without the pedal plugged in.

What I was trying to say in that snippet was that the problem seems to happen at random. It's not like 5 mins after booting up the problem appears or something. Sometimes the problem is there as soon as I boot it up, other times after I play for a bit.


so your OS is 2.02 ?

i dont recall if this OS had performance meters . 3.02 has them and they check polyphony

what piano programs are affected. some ? all ?

do u have a Korg sustain pedal ? confirm if u have the Korg DS1H or not.
unplug the cord , replug it in. is it in damper ?
what is your global setting for the pedal ?

not being a nag about the pedal. makes some sense to remove any possibility
of it being a contributor to the issue. its not much more work
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quariyune



Joined: 16 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:

so your OS is 2.02 ?

i dont recall if this OS had performance meters . 3.02 has them and they check polyphony

what piano programs are affected. some ? all ?

do u have a Korg sustain pedal ? confirm if u have the Korg DS1H or not.
unplug the cord , replug it in. is it in damper ?
what is your global setting for the pedal ?

not being a nag about the pedal. makes some sense to remove any possibility
of it being a contributor to the issue. its not much more work


I don't think I have the DS1H pedal since mine is more rounded. Here is a quick snapshot (Sorry for the quality, I don't have a camera or anything with me so I had to use my webcam) http://i.imgur.com/FObmmnU.jpg

It is plugged into the damper since I couldn't get notes to sustain from any of the other two plugs. I don't think it has to do with the pedal though since I've tried unplugging it and playing to the same effect.


When the problem starts happening, all the default programs are affected. Doesn't matter if I switch to like a violin, synth, drumkit, etc... or switch modes like program, seq, combi
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

quariyune wrote:
GregC wrote:

so your OS is 2.02 ?

i dont recall if this OS had performance meters . 3.02 has them and they check polyphony

what piano programs are affected. some ? all ?

do u have a Korg sustain pedal ? confirm if u have the Korg DS1H or not.
unplug the cord , replug it in. is it in damper ?
what is your global setting for the pedal ?

not being a nag about the pedal. makes some sense to remove any possibility
of it being a contributor to the issue. its not much more work


I don't think I have the DS1H pedal since mine is more rounded. Here is a quick snapshot (Sorry for the quality, I don't have a camera or anything with me so I had to use my webcam) http://i.imgur.com/FObmmnU.jpg

It is plugged into the damper since I couldn't get notes to sustain from any of the other two plugs. I don't think it has to do with the pedal though since I've tried unplugging it and playing to the same effect.


When the problem starts happening, all the default programs are affected. Doesn't matter if I switch to like a violin, synth, drumkit, etc... or switch modes like program, seq, combi


any other midi devices connected ? any other USB devices connected ? your pc/sequencer ?

it would help if you viewed the " Performance Meter tab " when your notes cut off, and detect what the usage is
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quariyune



Joined: 16 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Held notes being cut off on Kronos 88 keys? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
quariyune wrote:
GregC wrote:

so your OS is 2.02 ?

i dont recall if this OS had performance meters . 3.02 has them and they check polyphony

what piano programs are affected. some ? all ?

do u have a Korg sustain pedal ? confirm if u have the Korg DS1H or not.
unplug the cord , replug it in. is it in damper ?
what is your global setting for the pedal ?

not being a nag about the pedal. makes some sense to remove any possibility
of it being a contributor to the issue. its not much more work


I don't think I have the DS1H pedal since mine is more rounded. Here is a quick snapshot (Sorry for the quality, I don't have a camera or anything with me so I had to use my webcam) http://i.imgur.com/FObmmnU.jpg

It is plugged into the damper since I couldn't get notes to sustain from any of the other two plugs. I don't think it has to do with the pedal though since I've tried unplugging it and playing to the same effect.


When the problem starts happening, all the default programs are affected. Doesn't matter if I switch to like a violin, synth, drumkit, etc... or switch modes like program, seq, combi


any other midi devices connected ? any other USB devices connected ? your pc/sequencer ?

it would help if you viewed the " Performance Meter tab " when your notes cut off, and detect what the usage is


I don't have any other midi devices or usbs connected to my kronos, so I'm assuming the problem is the kronos itself.

I'll boot up the kronos to try and see the performance. Will edit with results in a moment.

EDIT: I did some quick testing and overall it looks pretty normal. Voice CPUs peaks at around 30%, effects CPU at around 15%, percentage of voices varies depending on what I'm playing but doesn't hit over around 40%, EXi fixed is around 1-2%, voice stealing stays at 0 and smooth sound transition is at zero. There is no real change between when there is sound vs when there's no sound other than the # of voices decreasing. The only thing that really stands out a bit is that if I'm playing a single voice passage really fast, it might show multiple voices, but I'm assuming that's because the kronos isn't processing the # of voices at a fast rate.


EDIT2: I was able to recreate the problem with more success and it seems like when it cuts off, the voice stealing has a small red bar on the right side and as soon as it cuts, the voice stealing raises like 1-2, then immediately falls back down to 0.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, this is tricky. I think I am stumped.

I have the 2011 88 and have experienced a few note cutoffs over the yrs but it was no big deal.

I am thinking this issue is possibly related to your keybed ( where its somehow sending continuous note usage) but thats a wild guess /service appt.

Maybe Dan@Korg can check in.
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quariyune



Joined: 16 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
yeah, this is tricky. I think I am stumped.

I have the 2011 88 and have experienced a few note cutoffs over the yrs but it was no big deal.

I am thinking this issue is possibly related to your keybed ( where its somehow sending continuous note usage) but thats a wild guess /service appt.

Maybe Dan@Korg can check in.


Alright, thanks for your help regardless. I didn't know about the performance meter thing before so it is good to at least know that something is happening and a part of the program can reflect it. I google'd what voice stealing is and (despite still not really understanding what it is), it seems to cause some trouble. I just hope it's something I can patch up with a usb rather than having to send to shop
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quariyune wrote:
GregC wrote:
yeah, this is tricky. I think I am stumped.

I have the 2011 88 and have experienced a few note cutoffs over the yrs but it was no big deal.

I am thinking this issue is possibly related to your keybed ( where its somehow sending continuous note usage) but thats a wild guess /service appt.

Maybe Dan@Korg can check in.


Alright, thanks for your help regardless. I didn't know about the performance meter thing before so it is good to at least know that something is happening and a part of the program can reflect it. I google'd what voice stealing is and (despite still not really understanding what it is), it seems to cause some trouble. I just hope it's something I can patch up with a usb rather than having to send to shop


I think the ' voice stealing ' term is slightly dramatic. I think that meter is simply saying ' momentary voice borrowing '. 1 or 2 voices borrowed is nothing to be concerned about IMO.

you might have some dust inside your keys hitting the contacts. Do you cover your 88 to prevent dust or pet hairs ? If your 88 has been uncovered for a year or 2, dust can be a possibility.

we never did clarify your OS. I think 3.02 is great. If you haven't installed that, it is a smooth install.
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quariyune



Joined: 16 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
quariyune wrote:
GregC wrote:
yeah, this is tricky. I think I am stumped.

I have the 2011 88 and have experienced a few note cutoffs over the yrs but it was no big deal.

I am thinking this issue is possibly related to your keybed ( where its somehow sending continuous note usage) but thats a wild guess /service appt.

Maybe Dan@Korg can check in.


Alright, thanks for your help regardless. I didn't know about the performance meter thing before so it is good to at least know that something is happening and a part of the program can reflect it. I google'd what voice stealing is and (despite still not really understanding what it is), it seems to cause some trouble. I just hope it's something I can patch up with a usb rather than having to send to shop


I think the ' voice stealing ' term is slightly dramatic. I think that meter is simply saying ' momentary voice borrowing '. 1 or 2 voices borrowed is nothing to be concerned about IMO.

you might have some dust inside your keys hitting the contacts. Do you cover your 88 to prevent dust or pet hairs ? If your 88 has been uncovered for a year or 2, dust can be a possibility.

we never did clarify your OS. I think 3.02 is great. If you haven't installed that, it is a smooth install.


I've kept a cover over my keyboard all this time, but there could be some dust in it so I'll see if I can try and blow some out with a pressurized can or something.

I haven't installed any new OS since I bought it so I'll give that a shot as well. Judging by some other people's reaction to the voice stealing thing, it seems to be a problem with the 2011 model?
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pedro5
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also installing the "KRONOS Sub-System Firmware Version 6.04" would be beneficial.

This can be found in the same place as the o/s updates(Korg website,support and downloads page).....it's the only firmware listed.
It only needs to be done once and will survive any o/s changes.

Good Luck.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="quariyune"]
GregC wrote:
quariyune wrote:


we never did clarify your OS. I think 3.02 is great. If you haven't installed that, it is a smooth install.


I've kept a cover over my keyboard all this time, but there could be some dust in it so I'll see if I can try and blow some out with a pressurized can or something.

I haven't installed any new OS since I bought it so I'll give that a shot as well. Judging by some other people's reaction to the voice stealing thing, it seems to be a problem with the 2011 model?


We tried to define v/s'g as a problem. All we determined was that certain combis( 2 so far) were always voice hungry and that layered Karma setups would contribute to larger v/s'g. So its easy to turn off a Karma pattern or set a program within a combi to off.

my dust idea is a long shot. You might consider calling Korg service to see if this is worth the effort. If you are careful its not difficult to unscrew ( 20 screws) the bottom cover for full access.
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quariyune



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've tried updating it to 3.0 and although the first day it went fine (Though that might just be luck now that I think about it), again it still has a voicestealing problem.

I don't think overloading karma has anything to do with it because it voicesteals even if I just play 1 note, without any karma.

I don't think dust is the issue since there's virtually no dust that has settled on the keyboard and none when I tried to blow between the keys.

I also don't think it has to do with they keys sending multiple signals to the kronos since sometimes certain notes work properly and other times they get voice-stolen (even if I'm just pressing that one key without any other extra stuff). The time between when I press the key and when the sound gets voice-stolen also seems to be pretty consistent no matter which key it is.


I honestly think that I may have something turned on that should be turned off or whatnot on my kronos, but I've done a factory reset and an OS upgrade so I've got no idea anymore.


If it could help get more insight into this, "Audio" light from the control assign column is lit, as well as M, 1-8, all the mix play/mute, the first mix select, and channel strip.


The reason why I don't really want to contact Kronos support is not necessarily because most customer supports I've spoken with are unhelpful and don't really know what they're talking about (Although it makes me hesitate more), but that I don't have access to a phone within my suite so I'd have to use the one in the middle of the campus cafeteria which makes it nearly impossible to diagonise my kronos. I'd also likely not be able to afford any sort of repair / checks that they'll "recommend".
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arne v
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Are you using alot of string resonance?
I have also experienced alot of "voice stealing" when string resonance is turned on...just a thought Smile

btw i have the 1 generation of Kronos
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