Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Keyboard Mag review
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
danmusician
Platinum Member


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 875
Location: Southern PA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:51 am    Post subject: I suspect... Reply with quote

I suspect the real reason that reviews are more generic than they used to be (if they are) has less to do with offending advertisers and more to do with offending the readers.

Think about it - those of us who choose Korg or Roland or Yamaha or Kurzweil or other brand become pretty passionate about our choice. Our keyboards are an extension of our self expression. If we choose a keyboard and then see it put down by others, we take it personally. It's like trying to tell a Mac user that you prefer Windows - or vice versa - all hell breaks loose.

Even on boards like this, there are times a poster might mention a lack of enthusiasm for brand X or Y and someone using that brand will take offense. Let Keyboard or Electronic Musician write an unfavorable Kronos review and the Kronos faithful will descend like an invasion of locusts! (Of course, we would be right!! Wink)

Further, I think the reviews are less hard hitting because there is less to say. The tone quality is excellent on most keyboards that come out. There are some exceptions, but most keyboard actions are pretty high quality, too. The real difference between brand X & Y is personal taste. An OS might seem intuitive to you and not to me. I may love the touch on one instrument, you may hate it. I'm not sure it's appropriate for a reviewer to comment on a feature as being "good" or "bad." Tell me what it can do, and I'll decide if it's right for me.

I guess that's why reviews might start to sound like product brochures. Smile
_________________
Kronos 2 88, Kronos Classic 73, PX-5S, Kronos 2 61, Roli Seaboard Rise 49
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully agree to the post above.
_________________

Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
BillW
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Northern Virginia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
I fully agree to the post above.


And I fully disagree. It's 100% about being advertiser friendly and doing whatever it takes to survive in an era where everything is about instant gratification. Information is readily available on the internet and fewer and fewer people are buying magazines. I am frankly surprised that anybody reads magazines at all anymore...there is simply nothing new in them. If you take the time to weed through the posts on various forums (and skip over the drivel), there is actually a TON of information online about the Kronos...far more than you're ever going to find in a 3 page magazine review.

I'm old enough to remember when healthy debate about one product vs. another was fun and ultimately a learning experience. What I see now is people immediately taking "offense" to everything and resorting to personally attacking others. It is both sickening and frustrating. How did we get here? Shocked
_________________
Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4; Casio Privia PX-350m; Macbook Pro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also fully agree to the post above. However, I don't mean I like it ... it is just the way it goes.
_________________

Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
danmusician
Platinum Member


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 875
Location: Southern PA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
I also fully agree to the post above. However, I don't mean I like it ... it is just the way it goes.


And Michel, I agree with you - not saying I like it, just observing the situation.

And Bill, you and I probably agree more than you think. I remember 20+ years ago when I couldn't wait to get the next copy of Keyboard or Electronic Musician. I would study them very thoroughly.

Anymore, I skim through it. Sometimes, I look at the stories on the cover and don't even open it. That's more a reflection of me than the mag itself. I'm not a kid just starting out. And as you say, the info is available somewhere else.

I standby the statement, "Tell me what it can do, and I'll decide for myself." if the manufacturer claims it does something it doesn't, tell me that, too.
_________________
Kronos 2 88, Kronos Classic 73, PX-5S, Kronos 2 61, Roli Seaboard Rise 49
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PinkFloydDudi
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillW wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
I fully agree to the post above.


And I fully disagree. It's 100% about being advertiser friendly and doing whatever it takes to survive in an era where everything is about instant gratification.


Advertisers would leave no matter what if there was no user (reader) base. So offending and losing readers is most likely #1.

Similarly, the big manufacturers won't give a damn about a bad review if the magazine still gets its name out to thousands of people that did purchase the keyboard.

I'm sure there is a fine line between keeping both happy....but you can almost always find new advertisers if your publication has a large consumer base, you can't necessarily as easily pick up new readers.


With that being said...like someone else mentioned - if anyone is complaining about the sounds on the kronos I'd very much hope they have already exhausted all options and parameters for each of the sounds they want.

If you want something a bit darker for your pianos, tweak it and you got it! THAT is what makes the kronos superior to most (if not all) other keyboards.
Some workstations only offer you a couple parameters that you can change - thereby limiting what type of sounds you can get. The Kronos isn't like that. The only thing limiting a piano sound from sounding exactly as you want it (in most cases), is someone's own laziness to tweak things!
Back to top
BillW
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Northern Virginia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danmusician wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
I also fully agree to the post above. However, I don't mean I like it ... it is just the way it goes.


And Michel, I agree with you - not saying I like it, just observing the situation.

And Bill, you and I probably agree more than you think. I remember 20+ years ago when I couldn't wait to get the next copy of Keyboard or Electronic Musician. I would study them very thoroughly.

Anymore, I skim through it. Sometimes, I look at the stories on the cover and don't even open it. That's more a reflection of me than the mag itself. I'm not a kid just starting out. And as you say, the info is available somewhere else.


I used to love Keyboard magazine. I still have a few of my favorite issues from the 80s (with Genesis, ELP and Yes articles). I dropped my sub many years ago. The last time I saw an issue at a local Borders, it was little more than a pamphlet. Kudos to Stephen Fortner for continuing to hold it together...I'm rooting for him, but the writing is on the wall. The mass production of media (books, magazines, DVDs, Blu-Ray and CDs) is coming to an end. Everything will be downloaded or streamed.

danmusician wrote:
I standby the statement, "Tell me what it can do, and I'll decide for myself." if the manufacturer claims it does something it doesn't, tell me that, too.


I absolutely agree with this.
_________________
Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4; Casio Privia PX-350m; Macbook Pro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DavyP
Full Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 166
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Magazine Reviews Reply with quote

Some interesting comments!

I suppose some element of bias is always going to be present in these reviews and it is difficult for reviewers to be objective for a number of reasons already mentioned - personal preference, advertisers, readership etc...

I wonder how Roland feel about the same SOS reviewers comments about the JP80 which if I remember were not so flattering?? Maybe they will pull their adverts out of the next issue whilst Korg add an extra few Kronos spreads onto the inside front and back pages??? Wink
_________________
Korg Kronos 88, Korg M1, Novation SL61 MKII, Roland JV1080 with Techno expansion, Roland D110, Yamaha MU80, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, Akai ME30PII midi patch bay, Behringer RX1602 mixer, ESI ESP1010e audio interface, Quad Core PC, Cubase Pro 9.0, SE X1 condenser mic.

Guitars: Yamaha SG700, Ovation Applause electro-acoustic, Squier Strat, Roland micro cube amp.

Former: Roland Jupiter 6, Yamaha DX9, Akai X7000 sampler, Casio CZ1000, Roland SH101, Roland TR909, Roland MC500mk2, Emu Procussion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member


Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Magazine Reviews Reply with quote

DavyP wrote:
Some interesting comments!

I suppose some element of bias is always going to be present in these reviews and it is difficult for reviewers to be objective for a number of reasons already mentioned - personal preference, advertisers, readership etc...

I wonder how Roland feel about the same SOS reviewers comments about the JP80 which if I remember were not so flattering?? Maybe they will pull their adverts out of the next issue whilst Korg add an extra few Kronos spreads onto the inside front and back pages??? Wink


I take it you didn't read the SOS review on the Jupiter. You are off base.
_________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BillW
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Northern Virginia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PinkFloydDudi wrote:
Advertisers would leave no matter what if there was no user (reader) base. So offending and losing readers is most likely #1.

Similarly, the big manufacturers won't give a damn about a bad review if the magazine still gets its name out to thousands of people that did purchase the keyboard.

I'm sure there is a fine line between keeping both happy....but you can almost always find new advertisers if your publication has a large consumer base, you can't necessarily as easily pick up new readers.


I'm sure there are many factors affecting the quality & length of reviews. I suspect most reviews are not in-depth because they're trying to cater to wide range of users in a short space...and every page costs money and time to produce. Just read through some of the posts on this forum and you'll find vast differences in what people care about. When it comes to the Kronos, I would like to have one more "switch" pedal jack, more sample RAM and 2 MIDI outs. I also don't care about Karma and keyboard-based sequencers, but not everybody feels that way.

I don't understand how an objective, factual review about a piece of gear could be in any way offensive. If anything, I feel it's the other way around. A lot of experienced users have canceled their subscriptions and stopped wasting their time with a publication that offers nothing of substance. I want to be aware of both strengths and weaknesses so that I can make an informed decision before I spend money on something.
_________________
Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4; Casio Privia PX-350m; Macbook Pro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vlad_77
Senior Member


Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 380
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Davy,

As I recall, the JP-80 review in SOS was QUITE flattering.

To the long time readers of Keyboard: I too was shocked at how much the mag has changed, and yes, it IS little more than a pamphlet. Keyboard used to be quite a hefty magazine and had all kinds of exquisite articles and very cool lessons and stories. One of my favorites was a piece by Dr. John that was penned when his book Under a Voodoo Moon was published. Good times!

Steve Fortner DOES deserve props, but the absence of Dominic Milano and Jim Aikin are missed - at least by me.

Someone made a comment they he is surprised that people even read magazines anymore. I would counter that it depends on the field of endeavor. In professional magic for example we still actually read print journals. A few of these are also available digitally but you already have to be a subscriber to the print version to get the value added digital versions. But the nature of professional magic doesn't really allow for wide open access. And trust me, the hacks you watch on YouTube who claim to be "teaching" advanced sleight of hand might as well take up stamp collecting. All you will learn from these chumps is how to be a very BAD performer and technician.

But for general periodicals/newspapers, I DO agree that the writing is on the wall. I would offer that within 10 years periodicals like Time, Newsweek, and Sports Illustrated will be solely digital.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
_________________
Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars Wink )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PinkFloydDudi
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillW wrote:

I don't understand how an objective, factual review about a piece of gear could be in any way offensive.


I don't really get that either...people are too quick to think that someone saying something bad about a piece of gear they own or want is a direct insult towards them.

I have hopped on the Kronos fanship a bit, but it is typically just to combat biased complaints from Motif or Roland fanboys! I will never say the Kronos is perfect and am certainly all ears when it comes to the problems others have encountered with it.
Back to top
synthguy
Platinum Member


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 661

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillW wrote:
When it comes to the Kronos, I would like to have one more "switch" pedal jack, more sample RAM and 2 MIDI outs. I also don't care about Karma and keyboard-based sequencers, but not everybody feels that way.

I'm not sure if these are examples of what you wanted to read about in the review or what, but additional MIDI outs are just now becoming thought of again in regard to new synths or workstations. While a few instruments and controllers have offered additional foot controller and footswitch jacks in the past, most instruments offer just a barebones implementation. Only Yamaha and Kurzweil offer breath controller ports. I'm unaware of any current synth with multiple MIDI outs, and only the VAX-77 keyboard controller has the often requested polypressure keyboards.

I have read reviews in which the limited features of the Kronos compared to the OASYS were mentioned, and I recall at least one mentioning how the available ram in The K hampered any custom sample loading.

I'm aware that there was some grouching over the Fantom G's OS missing a number of features, but also mentioned that it was early in the G's lifecycle and that updates were planned. No one would predict that Roland would stumble so badly on that point.

I don't know what you want in regard modern reviews. Synths these days are incredible machines packed with features, or in the case of the Motif XF, tons of sample rom. Perhaps the Mos should be criticized for playing it safe, though I believe they are. But even though I would find them underwhelming, would I review them as lame synths to be passed over for a Kronos or Jupiter? No, I would mention those competitors in passing. But I'd also say that Yamaha had the basis for a solid meat n potatoes keyboard that could also serve the synthesist and sound designer well, if not as well as a sole instrument.

If I was reviewing the Kronos or Jupiter though, you can be sure that I'd be gushing. Shortcomings would be mentioned such as the Kronos ram issue, but would be overshadowed by the sheer soundmaking capabilities of both synths. I'd be touting the Kronos as preeminent simply because of the wealth of synth engines, effects and clarity of the engine, though not counting out the Jupiter-80 thanks to a good sound engine with amazing voice layering capacity, and the authentic touches added by the SuperNatural articulations. If that wouldn't work for you, I suppose you could write a grouchy email about it. Wink
_________________
PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
aron
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 1546
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> Only Yamaha and Kurzweil offer breath controller ports

Make that Kurzweil. No breath controller anymore on Yamaha. Sad
_________________
Korg Kronos, CASIO PX-5S, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EvilDragon
Platinum Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthguy wrote:
I'm unaware of any current synth with multiple MIDI outs


Kurzweil PC3 can mirror the MIDI OUT on its MIDI THRU port, there's a switch on the back panel for that. Additionally, it can use USB port to send MIDI over it. If you have USB-to-MIDI cable, you have an additional MIDI OUT port, and you have control over what gets sent over which port (regular MIDI or USB MIDI, or both at the same time, if you want to) in Setup mode.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group