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billysynth1
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 1148
Location: Australia/Melbourne
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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I' ve resolved the issue ( again ) Its not the Kronos Keybed that is the issue its the Kronos McHale that is the issue.
Do us all a favour Mchale, please leave this thread, you had your say about technique resolution...it didnt work. Thankyou for the suggestion, we really appreciate it. So now, please go...
At this point, this thread is only good for new people/users informing Korg of a fault, and waiting for Korg to provide an answer...
Billy
_________________
Yamaha C1 Grand Piano.
Korg Oasys 88, Jupiter 80
Kronos 88, V Synth GT
I am a student of classical piano...I am not a classical pianist. |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| billysynth1 wrote: | Do us all a favour Mchale, please leave this thread, you had your say about technique resolution...it didnt work. Thankyou for the suggestion, we really appreciate it. So now, please go...
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Everybody should be allowed to say what he/she wants. It's good to have members who try to think of a solution, although it might not work after all... that's better than only complaining or repeating about complaints (I don't mean you by these people).
_________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Ojustaboo
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1154
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: | | billysynth1 wrote: | Do us all a favour Mchale, please leave this thread, you had your say about technique resolution...it didnt work. Thankyou for the suggestion, we really appreciate it. So now, please go...
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Everybody should be allowed to say what he/she wants. It's good to have members who try to think of a solution, although it might not work after all... that's better than only complaining or repeating about complaints (I don't mean you by these people). |
Yep, I agree with your first part, everyone should be able to say what they want.
But it's ok for McHale to repeat himself non stop when he doesn't have a problem but not OK for those that either do, or are looking to buy, who feel Korg is acting badly to also repeat themselves?
People aren't complaining for fun, they are complaining because of the bad service they feel they've received. When McHale is rude to people (my fail pic, saying to sparky that he shouldn't even be here) , I have to agree with billysymth1 that it would be better if he leaves this thread.
I don't care whether he goes or stays but I do care about people being rude to others because they have a different opinion and I don't see why people should be spoken to in the tone he continually does.
At least 3 people who were either having problems with their Kronos or thinking about purchasing one and not liking the way Korg is handling the situation, left/were leaving this forum due to the way people (one person in particular who is now no longer here) were constantly running them down for them complaining about bad service. This is supposed to be a friendly Korg related forums and Korg related includes the very bad along with the very Good Korg achieve.
Yes people will keep repeating their complaints, just like you and others repeat themselves over and over and over again in this thread . People should complain about bad service and if a company chooses to ignore them, they should keep complaining until the company take notice.
You might not like what I say, McHale might not like what I say, you might both see it as constant whining or negativity, I try to be as fair as I can, giving honest views as to why people are annoyed, knowing Korg employees do read this forum. Others tell me they do like (and agree) with what I'm saying.
McHale keeps having a go at Sparkie for posting, but I think someone that's laid out the money for their dream synth, been forced to return it due to problems, has more right to post in the problem thread than someone that doesn't' even have the problem.
McHale also says he's getting PM's from people and implies that people are sick of everyone else and implies he's the innocent person.
Guess what, I've also had PM's from a few people too. The simple fact is that time and time again this thread gets taken so far off track and every single time without fail it's down to the same thing. People who have zero problems with their board, having a go at those that do, or having a go at those wanting to purchase, for airing how they feel about the way Korg is handling it.
The only reason I jumped in this time and tried to give a logical viewpoint was because of the ganging up on people airing legitimate complaints by the perfect Kronos brigade (and that's what it's really beginning to look like to some) |
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sparkie
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 743
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="McHale"] | sparkie wrote: |
And why would you possibly care if I choose to open my Kronos to try to help people? Is that a bannable offense that I'm unaware of? Please school me sparkie... Your wisdom never disappoints.
If there is no more troubleshooting to do and nothing new to discuss, we can finally close this thread. Awesome! |
McHale, your business what you do with your keyboard, but not everyone wants to open up their keyboard and "void the warranty" .."void the warranty" .. like you have done. Nobody here asked for the problem?
You cant and wont be able to fix the problem because it is either A)bad part ..B) unlikely software glitch or C) Design problem. Even if you find a fix it wont be approved by Korg for everyone, just like the Ram add-on unless it is done at a service center...
You need to take your troubleshooting facts to Korg, and not customers!
This is not as though its a "mod" like the fan fix..or an add-on fix like the Ram board. ,,which in your case these kinds of mods are very helpful. But the keybed problem is an internal part problem that needs to be solved by Korg. They also need to communicate with its customers that have the problem and their service centers which they definitely haven't done...zero,,zip... nada..
Glad I sold mine, even though I took it in the shorts for a trade-in $$ loss.. because my respect for Korg customer service grows less and less each day ...... |
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KorgKeymaster
Junior Member
Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well one thing is for sure, with this RH3 Topic currently having 53057 views and 1158 replies, it certainly cannot go unnoticed by Korg. That being said I'm sure they are taking this problem very seriously.
_________________
Steinway Model B
Korg Kronos 61 (on its way)
Nord Stage 2-88 (on its way)
Korg m3-73
Akai MPC-4000
NI-Komplete 7 |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sparkie wrote: | | McHale, your business what you do with your keyboard, but not everyone wants to open up their keyboard and "void the warranty" .."void the warranty" .. like you have done. |
You keep saying this. I have never asked anyone to open up their Kronos. And since you don't have one and are simply trolling, I haven't asked YOU to do anything.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ojustaboo wrote: | | The only reason I jumped in this time and tried to give a logical viewpoint was because of the ganging up on people airing legitimate complaints by the perfect Kronos brigade (and that's what it's really beginning to look like to some) |
That's my point that you obviously don't get. If you think a forum or a thread is just so people can complain, you don't understand what a community forum is for. You really don't get it. And the fact that people are mad at either 1. because we DON'T have the problem or 2. because we don't share your "let's use this thread to bash anything about the KRONOS we possibly can because we paid a lot of money for it" makes zero sense. Some of us are trying to help figure out what the problem is and you're upset by that. That is both sad and hilarious. The fact that some of you state that the KRONOS is completely unplayable because of this flaw but are unwilling to do something to allow it to be playable while you wait for a resolution is simply crazy. If the handful of you are so upset and you simply can't live with this OH MY GOD HORRIBLE flaw, return the KRONOS to where you bought it from and get something else.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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Dristland
Joined: 23 Dec 2011
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: Another story of the cut off problem |
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Hello everyone!
I'm new to these forums, but I've been following this thread for a few weeks. That's mainly because I've had a Kronos 88 in preorder since July and the problems with the keybed have been worrying me. I usually don't participate in forum discussions, since most of them tend to end up in flamewars. This time, however, I felt like I had an obligation to write my story with the Kronos. I don't want to participate in the arguments that have been going on here. I'm simply telling my own story.
This wednesday I got a call from the music store, that my Kronos had finally arrived. I went nuts of happiness. Finally the wait is over and just before christmas. This was the best present ever. When I went to the store, I told the salesman of the problems that the Keybed might have. He told me that he has heard about the problems but the forum posts about this matter are exaggerations. There was a K88 on display, which I didn't test at the time. He said that the model on display didn't have any problems at all. So I decided to trust the salesman and hoped for the best. I drove home, put the thing on and started playing. Ahh, wonderful piano sound... and the note cut off. At first I felt very sad. But then I started thinking, can I live with this issue. I continued playing the whole evening and got cut offs now and then. If I concentrated to keep the keys down more firm, then there was no problem. As soon as I got into creative zone (you know when you get sucked into music), the note cut off interrupted and washed away the good feeling. My verdict for "can I live with it", the answer after a few hours of playing, is no, definitely not.
The next day I called the salesman and told about the problem. He was very supportive and told me to bring it back. He really felt bad about the issue and really promised to take care of it. He had even called the Korg importer to the store so I could personally describe the problem. The Korg guy was aware of the problem, but he thought that version 1.5 had some fixes to the issue. Well, updating didn't fix my cut off problem. I was interested to finally test the K88 on display to see if it had the same problem. Guess what, in ten seconds I was able to show the problem to the Korg importer beside me. He listened and saw the problem and seemed a little worried. However, he promised that it would be fixed. How and when, that I don't know.
A fact that might interest you, is that I had a black sticker "RH3 from Japan" or something like that. The keyboard on display had a purple RH3 sticker, but both keyboards had the cut off problem.
So, right now I feel a little sad after spending a huge fortune of money for a keyboard that I've had for a day. I don't blame anyone for this. The salesman and the Korg importer were very professional and I have always got good service in the shop (DLX music, Helsinki, Finland *I recommend*). s**t happens. I just hope we all get our Kronoses fixed soon. And please, let's put a stop to fighting in this thread.
My serial number is 21xx.
Peace!
Dristland
*edited spelling and paragraphs* |
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Ojustaboo
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1154
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Another story of the cut off problem |
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| Dristland wrote: | | I was interested to finally test the K88 on display to see if it had the same problem. Guess what, in ten seconds I was able to show the problem to the Korg importer beside me. He listened and saw the problem and seemed a little worried. However, he promised that it would be fixed. How and when, that I don't know. |
Yep, you've reported exactly what the majority of other posters on this thread have been saying. Not only is yours faulty, but so is the one in the store you tried.
It's because I hear reports such as yours from numerous different people in this thread and elsewhere, that I don't believe it's the minority that are faulty.
If for one sec I thought it was a tiny amount of problem beds, I wouldn't be on here talking, I'd be saving hard and ordering my own Kronos. |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3036
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Another story of the cut off problem |
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| Ojustaboo wrote: | It's because I hear reports such as yours from numerous different people in this thread and elsewhere, that I don't believe it's the minority that are faulty.
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Your conclusion is way off. If you "don't believe it's the minority" then you believe it is the majority.
Let's make an assumption that the two people in the entire world with the most recently produced Kronos 73 and 88 units are aware of the Karma-Lab forum, and have posted their serial numbers (1017 + 960 = 1,977). Given this assumption is not true, it would be reasonable to assume Korg has manufactured at least 2,000 Kronos keyboards with RH3 actions.
http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18110
For your belief of a majority that are faulty to be correct, there would be 1,000 Kronos keyboards that display this double-note problem. How many different Kronos units have people actually complained about here? 20? 50? 75? I am not interested in spending the time re-reading this entire thread, but I would be surprised if even 50 units have been reported by users here to be defective.
Given the anecdotal posts here, it may be reasonable to assume the problem may impact more than Korg's originally reported 1%. However, it is outrageous to attempt to claim the problem affects the majority of Kronos keyboards.
Yes it's a problem, and I definitely would be unhappy if I were one of the people with a defective unit. However, it serves no purpose to make outrageous claims that aren't supported by facts.
_________________
** KORG Product Support Contacts **
(they support BOTH hardware and software)
Korg USA Product support -- https://www.korgusa.com/contactus (For fastest service I would suggest calling them on the phone)
Outside the U.S. contact your Korg Country Distributor -- https://www.korg.com/us/corporate/distributors/ |
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Another story of the cut off problem |
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| MartinHines wrote: | | Ojustaboo wrote: | It's because I hear reports such as yours from numerous different people in this thread and elsewhere, that I don't believe it's the minority that are faulty.
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Your conclusion is way off. If you "don't believe it's the minority" then you believe it is the majority.
Let's make an assumption that the two people in the entire world with the most recently produced Kronos 73 and 88 units are aware of the Karma-Lab forum, and have posted their serial numbers (1017 + 960 = 1,977). Given this assumption is not true, it would be reasonable to assume Korg has manufactured at least 2,000 Kronos keyboards with RH3 actions.
http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18110
For your belief of a majority that are faulty to be correct, there would be 1,000 Kronos keyboards that display this double-note problem. How many different Kronos units have people actually complained about here? 20? 50? 75? I am not interested in spending the time re-reading this entire thread, but I would be surprised if even 50 units have been reported by users here to be defective.
Given the anecdotal posts here, it may be reasonable to assume the problem may impact more than Korg's originally reported 1%. However, it is outrageous to attempt to claim the problem affects the majority of Kronos keyboards.
Yes it's a problem, and I definitely would be unhappy if I were one of the people with a defective unit. However, it serves no purpose to make outrageous claims that aren't supported by facts. |
I don't think it is a majority either but it is definitely a game of Russian roulette right now. Too many people have run into multiple instances of the problem and it is clear that some new buyers are still encounting the problem. Plus, some users are having the issue arise after some period of time. Others may feel comfortable doing so, but there is no way I would advise anyone to buy a weighted Kronos until Korg shares more information. Hopefully that will happen soon as Rich indicated.
_________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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Kim
Full Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Another story of the cut off problem |
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| Dristland wrote: | Hello everyone!
I'm new to these forums, but I've been following this thread for a few weeks. That's mainly because I've had a Kronos 88 in preorder since July and the problems with the keybed have been worrying me. I usually don't participate in forum discussions, since most of them tend to end up in flamewars. This time, however, I felt like I had an obligation to write my story with the Kronos. I don't want to participate in the arguments that have been going on here. I'm simply telling my own story.
This wednesday I got a call from the music store, that my Kronos had finally arrived. I went nuts of happiness. Finally the wait is over and just before christmas. This was the best present ever. When I went to the store, I told the salesman of the problems that the Keybed might have. He told me that he has heard about the problems but the forum posts about this matter are exaggerations. There was a K88 on display, which I didn't test at the time. He said that the model on display didn't have any problems at all. So I decided to trust the salesman and hoped for the best. I drove home, put the thing on and started playing. Ahh, wonderful piano sound... and the note cut off. At first I felt very sad. But then I started thinking, can I live with this issue. I continued playing the whole evening and got cut offs now and then. If I concentrated to keep the keys down more firm, then there was no problem. As soon as I got into creative zone (you know when you get sucked into music), the note cut off interrupted and washed away the good feeling. My verdict for "can I live with it", the answer after a few hours of playing, is no, definitely not.
The next day I called the salesman and told about the problem. He was very supportive and told me to bring it back. He really felt bad about the issue and really promised to take care of it. He had even called the Korg importer to the store so I could personally describe the problem. The Korg guy was aware of the problem, but he thought that version 1.5 had some fixes to the issue. Well, updating didn't fix my cut off problem. I was interested to finally test the K88 on display to see if it had the same problem. Guess what, in ten seconds I was able to show the problem to the Korg importer beside me. He listened and saw the problem and seemed a little worried. However, he promised that it would be fixed. How and when, that I don't know.
A fact that might interest you, is that I had a black sticker "RH3 from Japan" or something like that. The keyboard on display had a purple RH3 sticker, but both keyboards had the cut off problem.
So, right now I feel a little sad after spending a huge fortune of money for a keyboard that I've had for a day. I don't blame anyone for this. The salesman and the Korg importer were very professional and I have always got good service in the shop (DLX music, Helsinki, Finland *I recommend*). s**t happens. I just hope we all get our Kronoses fixed soon. And please, let's put a stop to fighting in this thread.
My serial number is 21xx.
Peace!
Dristland
Morjens Dristland!
I bought my Kronos 88 from Dlx music as well. About two months ago, it was the first 88 in Finland to my knowledge. And I suffer from the same problem. I was considering the possibility to exchange mine to a new one but hearing your story, I realize it hadn't changed my situation at all. Sorry to hear of your trouble, but I wish you all the best. Let's hope for a fast fix!
*edited spelling and paragraphs* |
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Chriskk
Senior Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't think it is a majority either but it is definitely a game of Russian roulette right now. |
Borrowing from Deer Hunter, I'd say it's more like a game of Russian roulette with three bullets. |
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Ojustaboo
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1154
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Another story of the cut off problem |
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| MartinHines wrote: | | [ I am not interested in spending the time re-reading this entire thread, but I would be surprised if even 50 units have been reported by users here to be defective. |
I listed a month ago 45 actual reports in this thread (around page 48 ) and within the next few posts two others said we could add their names to the list and there has been a fair few more than another 3 reporting problems since then. I also noted in that post that many people say they know of others not present in this forum also with the problem.
| Quote: |
Given the anecdotal posts here, it may be reasonable to assume the problem may impact more than Korg's originally reported 1%. However, it is outrageous to attempt to claim the problem affects the majority of Kronos keyboards.
Yes it's a problem, and I definitely would be unhappy if I were one of the people with a defective unit. However, it serves no purpose to make outrageous claims that aren't supported by facts. |
I want to agree with you believe it or not. I hope you are right. When I made that post listing the 45 reported ones here, based on the then available serial numbers, I reckoned on just over around 3% of failures. Obviously that isn't the majority of boards.
However, what concerns me, I'm not trying to score points or win an argument, I'm being honest and I could be mistaken, to the best of my knowledge, not one person with a problem bed in this thread has got a replacement one that works. People like Pianomanchuck have had 3, various range of serial numbers, all with the problems.
When I see that, and I see people trying them out in multiple stores (and in different countries) and reportedly finding the problem on every single one, it does naturally ring alarm bells.
Logic says that if it was a small minor problem this wouldn't be the case. Why is it that people with the problem or thinking of buying are constantly finding the problem on every keyboard they find?
Again I would like to think it is around 3 - 5% with problems, but peoples reports on here, don't tally up with that sort of figure unless people on here are part of some huge coincidence.
I would like to think what I'm saying is outrageous and non-factual, but for that to be the case, then there's a lot of people telling lies in this thread. I'm only basing my thoughts that it seems to be the majority based on what person after person has reported on here.
Again, show me 2 or 3 people that have had the problem, tried out or received another bed, and not seen the problem there also.
When faced with those reports, what am I supposed to think?
It's also possible of course that many people who own Kronos don't use it with Piano type sounds, don't play it as a pro type piano player would etc hence wouldn't even know the problem, existed.
I want a Kronos, if I believed it was 3 - 5% I would take the risk (although still saving at the moment, not got the cash yet), but based with what I've seen people saying in this thread what am I supposed to think?
If most people with a faulty one went back to the shop got a replacement that worked, or went into a few shops to try them out and the vast majority worked, then yes I would agree with you 100%. But that is not at all what's being reported by people. |
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Pepperpotty
Moderator
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 1308
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think that's enough now guys. It really doesn't matter how many keyboards have the problem and you will never know the exact number so there is no need to keep arguing over it. Korg have made an announcement so let's just wait and see what they come up with. I agree that they're running a little late with their solution but it's Christmas, so let's cut them a little slack.
This thread is getting out of hand again. I suggest you call a Christmas truce and take a few days to cool off.
If the arguments carry on in this thread then I'll be forced to close it until you can agree to disagree.
_________________
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Voicelive 2, Shure SM58, Alesis M1 Active 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 |
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