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Kronos in a MONO setup
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apex
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Kronos in a MONO setup Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the Kronos in a mono setting yet?

I have a gig this Friday and it's gonna be a very short set (30 minutes). I'm going to just use a keyboard amp (which will be a mono setup) and I don't want to go through the hassle of loading up/unloading/setting up/loading up/unloading the Kronos.... It will take extra long because I'll be trying to be extra careful. LOL

plus if the mono setting will make even more "not worth it", then that's two reasons not to take it.

especially the SG-1 pianos... how do they sound in mono?
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Zeroesque
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually go mono. It sounds fine live (where stereo is not necessarily better in many situations). Keyboards are an equal to the guitar in my band and everyone that I talked to said they heard me just fine, including the German Grand in a variety of styles and songs (by itself, solos, comping, etc).
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm right (at least for other Korgs) if you only use the left output and don't connect the right you get a MONO signal which is a combination of left/right and I assume this should work quite well.
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apex
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mono... (even left only) doesn't sound NEAR as good as stereo...

I first noticed this with my motif rack xs...
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apex wrote:
mono... (even left only) doesn't sound NEAR as good as stereo...

I first noticed this with my motif rack xs...


You probably miss all panning, stereo effects like chorus, ping/pong delays and for piano panning from low/left to high/right. And everything sounds much more dense because the sound cannot be divided by two speakers.
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PinkFloydDudi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apex wrote:
mono... (even left only) doesn't sound NEAR as good as stereo...

I first noticed this with my motif rack xs...


I would disagree with this on many cases in a live setting.

I completely agree with you when sitting down with near-field or powered monitors sitting a couple feet from you.

Think about a large live music event. Typically people are not in the ideal area where they will pick up both the left and right channels equally. Now, instead of getting a mix of both channels, people only hear one or the other.

Messing with things last night for me brought up a perfect example.

Take the song "Money" by pink floyd. Play it through 2 speakers using a mono setup...sounds cool.

Take that same song and play it through 2 speakers using a stereo setup...really cool with the panning effects!

Now take that same stereo setup, and unplug 1 of the speakers. Notice you will only hear every other sound effect? It sounds like garbage...like you are missing half the sound (which you are).

That is the sound that many will hear if you run stereo in a huge setup without having an extreme amount of planning going in from the sound guys and from your keyboard sounds.

Just remember the setup and the size of the area within the audience where people will actually be able to hear the full stereo field of sound!
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PinkFloydDudi wrote:
apex wrote:
mono... (even left only) doesn't sound NEAR as good as stereo...

I first noticed this with my motif rack xs...


I would disagree with this on many cases in a live setting.

I completely agree with you when sitting down with near-field or powered monitors sitting a couple feet from you.

Think about a large live music event. Typically people are not in the ideal area where they will pick up both the left and right channels equally. Now, instead of getting a mix of both channels, people only hear one or the other.

Messing with things last night for me brought up a perfect example.

Take the song "Money" by pink floyd. Play it through 2 speakers using a mono setup...sounds cool.

Take that same song and play it through 2 speakers using a stereo setup...really cool with the panning effects!

Now take that same stereo setup, and unplug 1 of the speakers. Notice you will only hear every other sound effect? It sounds like garbage...like you are missing half the sound (which you are).

That is the sound that many will hear if you run stereo in a huge setup without having an extreme amount of planning going in from the sound guys and from your keyboard sounds.

Just remember the setup and the size of the area within the audience where people will actually be able to hear the full stereo field of sound!


I use stereo live (but mostly in not to big places), and always take care, no sound is too much on one side, not relying on stereo effects (tough I use them, they are never too slow speed), so that even in a less ideal position the mix is still adequate.
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PinkFloydDudi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:

I use stereo live (but mostly in not to big places), and always take care, no sound is too much on one side, not relying on stereo effects (tough I use them, they are never too slow speed), so that even in a less ideal position the mix is still adequate.


I run mostly stereo live as well..you just have to be careful with it. Always keep in mind some people are sitting in front of only 1 speaker!

My main point is that mono is fine for most gigs, and might actually be preferred depending on your setup and the sound system setup.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone likes to sound "big" and often, stereo sounds "bigger". But I would say not just in a live situation, but often in a studio situation a "stereo" sound can clutter the mix more than make it sound better. What use is a stereo sax, a bass, a kickdrum, even a rhodes (as long as no pan fx or chorus are applied)? They weren't sampled in stereo, and if they were, you might wonder why. Very often these sounds are phantom stereo sounds - the original was mono and they just process the left and right with a slightly different pitch or delay to make the whole thing sound bigger.

Don't be afraid of mono!
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shawnhar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Everyone likes to sound "big" and often, stereo sounds "bigger". But I would say not just in a live situation, but often in a studio situation a "stereo" sound can clutter the mix more than make it sound better.


Hear, hear!

Stereo sounds are just another version of "bigger is not always better", just the same as huge rich tones with lots of energy in all frequency bands. They absolutely do sound better on their own, but the bigger something is, the harder it can be to fit into a mix.

Just like a good recorded piano or guitar often requires EQ that would sound terribly thin if played solo, they are also often better sat at a single location in the stereo spread, as opposed to having chorus, reverb tails, and echoes flying crazily from speaker to speaker.

Live playing tends to exacerbate this issue because things are less controllable (lots of ambient noise, often limited control over the mix, and most listeners not ideally positioned between the speakers) but the same basic issues come up in studio recording.
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aron
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest advantage of playing in stereo is that it just plain sounds better. It really does. Put 2 good speakers one on each side of you and I tell you, it's great.

Who care whether the sound man sums mono, or re-eq's....? While you are playing, it sound like a million bucks. Not only that, you play better. Really.

I've never had anyone come back to me and tell me that playing stereo doesn't make them sound and play better. It does.

Stereo is not for the people listening, it's for you.

That being said.... the downfall is setup time. ... oh and IMO Wink
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popmann
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait...there's not a mono output mode? I record all EPs in mono...I hadn't found it yet.
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aron
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most keyboards, just the left side sums mono.
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I never bought into the conventional wisdom that "Live should be Mono Only." It depends on your style of mixing. If you're doing a lot of stereo "stunts" (for lack of a better word), like maybe ping-pong panning or something, then I would agree.

But I try to set up my stereo field as if I were looking at a "real" ensemble playing. So from left to right, I try to give instruments their own space. Some timbres, like a string or brass section, beg to be stereo chorused for the effect of having the group spread out in front of you.

Now, it's true that people on one side will hear a different perspective on the mix than the other when playing live. But if they were listening to a "real" ensemble play, they'd also have a different perspective on the mix depending where they sit.

Having said all of that, I went MONO about five years ago when I got the Bose L1 system. But I did that because my back is getting older and I got tired of lugging my 15 inch EV cabinets around.

Back to the original post, having gigged a few times with the Kronos and the L1, I would say that the mono sound is acceptable. I've had a lot of compliments on it. I do miss the stereo presence of the sound when playing live- and stereo would be better - but mono is perfectly fine.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear, I'm not saying that stereo doesn't sound better for the one playing the instrument. I'm saying it can in many situation create more of a clutter in the mix and make the whole band sound less good than it could.
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