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editing a Karma sequence of notes.

 
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engineerjoel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: editing a Karma sequence of notes. Reply with quote

Refer to factory combi: I-C053 "Metal Blimp Blues"

There is a sequence of arpeggiating notes that Karma is generating.

I would like to change two of the notes to different pitches.

Please assist.

Thanks.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guessing you are referring to the Karma pattern " finger picking gtr 3/4'
on midi channel 16, module D

Unfortunately, I don't find it 'practical' to simply edit notes on a Karma pattern on Kronos.

I think the edit feature is available on the full version of Karma software.

You could dig around for another Karma pattern, and experiment.

Another workaround is to copy the combi into the SEQ and manually play what you want and record it. Its a straightforward guitar part and thats what I would do, assuming plans to build on the combi.
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Last edited by GregC on Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can do it but depends on what kind of project you are working with.

Using multiple timbres with complex zoning is possible.

Karma software lets you make your own custom pattern.

Karma in Kronos has Note mapping that can change the note map of the keys such that one note pressed can actually sound out a different note instead. You map the keys to whatever note you need it to be.

Sequencer record of karma phrase and then track edit of the midi note data but it can not be lut back into Karma GE without Karma software version. But it can ne turned to an audio sample and used to make a multisample program.
Or even put to work in pattern RPPR.
All depends on what kronos options your project form will fit into.

I can not be sure that the 32 adjustable GE parameters do not have among them a parameter that can change pitch of notes and do so in a way that isolates only two of the notes for pitch change in the pattern.

The karma notes are actually sounding from the keyboard, same place the key press gets the notes sounding from. Karma just sends its own note commands to do the job of the keys remotely.
So, if you change the pitch of the specific keys in a combi, using pitch shift or transpose, then every time karma pattern drives those notes, they will sound out as they have been altered to sound in the combi zoned timbre with timbre parameters.
It would take a few timbre/tracks dynamically zoned to work it all out via dynamic zoning.
One or two timbres for the two notes to be altered by pitch. If the notes are right next to each other and they can shift pitch in tandem, then one timbre is enough for both of them.
Zone the timbre to just those two notes and apply Karma after the notes have had pitch changed.
If the notes are not next to each other or are shifting pitch unevenly, then you will need two timbres, one timbre for each note and zone each timbre to just the single note after each is pitch shifted or transposed. Add the same Karma module to both timbres.

Then you have to make two more timbres that zone in every note except the two isolated notes. You may even have to use 3 more timbres to zone below the isolated notes and above them and also inbetween them if that applies.
Possibly 5 timbres needed and each with the same program and all set to be driven by the same Karma module. Each will have its own zoning, two of them will be zoned to a single note that is pitch shifted or trnasposed.
The others will be zoned to cover the key parts not inculded in the zoning of the rest of the timbres.
If you do it right, you will not have any polyphony issues as long as no zones overlap. All those extra timbres will hardly use extra processing power to do zoning and pitchshift.
A single program using 5 timbres in a combi(or less), all to work out dynamic zoning setup.

Another way is to get Karma software and edit the phrase there. The best option if you work kronos with a laptop already.

I cannot be sure about Karma note mapping doing the job but i know Kronos Karma has note mapping feature which lets you remap the keyboard note map such that you can map any single note to play another note other that its standard designatied note. Not pitch shifting or transpose, but a real scrambling of the order of the notes. Not sure what kind of flexibility it has but i know making a Custom note mapmon Kronos is possible if i recall correctly.

Another way is record the Karma part into Sequencer and use midi track edit to change the notes. But then you cannot use it in Karma anymore.
You could turn the edited phrase into a sample and make a multisample program out of it.
Or use it in RPPR.


The first thing i would look at, is Karma note mapping and see if it is not too difficult for you to figure out custom note map making and then find out if it is possible to change/remap just the notes you want to change.

If not note mapping, Karam software is the next best option, if you already have a laptop in your workflow. You have to spend some $$$ to get it though.

If not software or note mapping, then try the complex zoning if you have space for it all in a combi, if it can fit your entire project in.
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engineerjoel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... you're saying that there is no easy way just to go into Karma and change say the 5th note in the scale from a "G" to a "G#" and hit save and be done?
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

engineerjoel wrote:
So... you're saying that there is no easy way just to go into Karma and change say the 5th note in the scale from a "G" to a "G#" and hit save and be done?


I can’t be sure, maybe someone else knows exactly where to go to get what you want.
There could be on the GE parameters but that is a search through 32 of them easily narrowed down to a few, but still those few have a wide range of settings, and still no guarantee the settings would set to create exactly what you want. A lot of settings to sift through, can be tedious.

Note mapping is about as easy as it gets -if you have a simple note mapping feature.
Karma in general isn’t really easy, but that is the price paid for the broad utility it offers.

And Karma is not really an Arp player even though it does Arps.
So none of the note pattern edit features like a real arp player would have.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

engineerjoel wrote:
So... you're saying that there is no easy way just to go into Karma and change say the 5th note in the scale from a "G" to a "G#" and hit save and be done?

19naia wrote:
Karma in Kronos has Note mapping that can change the note map of the keys such that one note pressed can actually sound out a different note instead. You map the keys to whatever note you need it to be.


Yeah if that's all you're trying to do engineerjoel... then making a Custom Note Map will do exactly that. Like 19naia said it's about as easy as it gets. Let us know if you have any questions on how Note Maps work and if you find the solution you're looking for.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
engineerjoel wrote:
So... you're saying that there is no easy way just to go into Karma and change say the 5th note in the scale from a "G" to a "G#" and hit save and be done?

19naia wrote:
Karma in Kronos has Note mapping that can change the note map of the keys such that one note pressed can actually sound out a different note instead. You map the keys to whatever note you need it to be.


Yeah if that's all you're trying to do engineerjoel... then making a Custom Note Map will do exactly that. Like 19naia said it's about as easy as it gets. Let us know if you have any questions on how Note Maps work and if you find the solution you're looking for.


I am wondering if the note mapping feature in Karma can be set up to remap notes to affect note data coming out of GE and not affect the note data coming from the key press while thru in zone is enabled..
I guess even if not, it can work out using a second timbre with duplicate program without karma, to play the normallly mapped notes in the background.

Don’t have kronos with me to dig into it to fnd out.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19naia wrote:
I am wondering if the note mapping feature in Karma can be set up to remap notes to affect note data coming out of GE and not affect the note data coming from the key press while thru in zone is enabled..
I guess even if not, it can work out using a second timbre with duplicate program without karma, to play the normallly mapped notes in the background.

Don’t have kronos with me to dig into it to fnd out.


I can see the confusion. But the Note Maps only effect what is coming out of the GE. They can function per chord like all major chords for example, or per scale. Here's a video the might prove illuminating: https://youtu.be/I-14fTEGHv8

EDIT: Happen to be editing the Karma-Lab wiki rn and came across this article: http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/karma2:changing-or-removing-particular-notes-generated-by-ka
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