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Microstation - assign combi sounds to songtracks ???
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Aerosol



Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Microstation - assign combi sounds to songtracks ??? Reply with quote

Hi,

I've been trying to assign a combi sound to a track to record a song, however I can only find regular sounds when scrolling through the track. (I'd like to use Combi Synth Nr. 36 - ISABELLA with ARP on) am I missing something obvious? any help would be appreciated.
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Re-Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 657

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, you need to find out what the actual patch location number is for the Combi. The way things are grouped by category is actually numbered differently from their real locations. To find it, select the patch you want to use while in Combi mode, turn the NUM LOCK button on, then press ENTER (button #14). It will display a letter in the top corner along with a three digit number. Write this down.

Next, go to SEQ mode and find the SONG Command section in menus. There will be an option called "Copy Combi" toward the bottom of these menus. From here, you can find the Combi patch by using the letter and number you wrote down. Also make sure that the "Multi Rec" option is set to "Yes" in these menus, otherwise the Combi ends up being divided and you can't play them together as a single unit. This will also carry the arp settings over too.
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Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin
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Aerosol



Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks ! I've done all that, the code is B055 and I've recorded my little riff. the problem now is that i can't seem to set any of the other tracks to any other sound (drums, bass, etc.). So I can record the combi sound but cant play any bass drums or other stuff over it, what am i doing wrong ?
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ASMILANO



Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Microstation - assign combi sounds to songtracks ??? Reply with quote

hi, guys

I need your help

apart from wondering if it's possible to assign a combi for every track within one song (Aerosol's last issue) I am not even been able so far to assign a single one

I followed procedure from Re-Member (thank you, man!) to assign a combi to one of my song's four tracks and unfortunately doesn't work

global midi ch:1
4-digits code to insert in copy comby, yes to multi rec and yes to completion but it doesn't work. Pressing play all tracks play using pre-assigned programmes...

why do you think? it is as frustrating as exciting it was to find out sombody else experienced my troubles and somehow soved them

... thank you, guys, in advance for your time and support which I badly need
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BillErickson



Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Portland Oregon USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but you can only use *Programs* for the tracks in a sequence, not *Combis*.

While I can't find anyplace where it's specifically stated, the microSTATION Operation Guide has various lines where it implies this. For example, on page 33:

"The display will show a screen where you can select
the program for each track; here you can view the
number and name of the program used by each track."

(Note it says *program* for each track -- no mention of combis)

and:

"A program is assigned to each of the template
song’s sixteen tracks.... "
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ASMILANO



Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Microstation - assign combi sounds to songtracks ??? Reply with quote

no, Bill

the handbook is shamefully incomplete but I am sure there's a way

COMMAND "COPY COMBI" does work and we must just understand how to make it be effective only for one track at a time instead of all song's tracks

also recording a new song from combi does work... I am sure there is still something we should set to be in full control

something in the parameters

regarding my previous issue... I was importing data from an external file and track assignment was set on auto. You have to set it on manual to be able to change them

this microstation is a powerful and cool machine but much more information were needed

is there a kind of Korg direct assistance for such inquiries?

is anybody knows better HELP, MAN!!
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johnroney
Junior Member


Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: understanding the architecture Reply with quote

you gotta understand how the microstation thinks in order to get used to working within it...

the SEQ page (if you use the editor software) is the SAME setup as a COMBI...
it loads individual PROGRAMS into the 16 slots, which can be assigned a bunch of things, including the midi channel...

so if there's a COMBI that you like (especially the ones with drums and basses, and arps),... chances are, that there are multiple PROGs assigned to the same midi channel (Gch often).

if you COPY COMBI this into the SEQ, it will take up the same parameters that the COMBI version does (yup, copied directly into the SEQ template)...

and then, you're free to set up the other slots, if unused...

there are a whole bunch of problems with this though... because you can only do this ONCE! hahaa... and, the librarian software does not help... so, if there's a COMBI that you like, and you want to use it with a second setup (let's say a nice orchestra patch with a drum and bass...) better memorize the numerical parameters for every single variable in your 16 slot setup... *frown*

you can however (on the unit itself) find a part of the menu called "SAVE TEMPLATE' which will allow you to store the SEQ setup that you made... it just doesn't remember the loop parameters... and it forgets the tempo information, and resets the metronome to default.

the MS is a great axe... worth the 300 bucks. but, i think that it has not become wildly popular due to its really cheap and childlike software structure. even the microkorg xl is more flexible in editing, allowing for drag and drop, and organizing presets.

good luck using the MS... it's fun, but trust me... the better you get at programming it, the more frustrated you will get. be happy with it for what it does out of the box, without needing it to do anything special....
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ASMILANO



Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnroney,

thank you very much for your insights...

let me updated you on my progresses

I finally renounced to have combis in my song because programs are just fine

problem though is that once used in sequencer mode programs play differently than from program mode because of effects not being automatically carried out!!!

... to make short a long story as you forecast I am getting very frustrated as I am stuck with a very good song I'd like to share with my friends and can't finish without having the right timbers...

also copying effects won't do... tonight I am really depressed

thank you anyway
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johnroney
Junior Member


Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes yes yes... all the typical problems.
sorry... but that's what the microstation is all about.
nothing is user friendly or 'automatic' as you say...
what you might want to try is to spend a solid weekend learning how the effects actually work, and taking notes of them (on a piece of paper).
this way, you can setup a seq template and save it with the sounds you like... or a combi for that matter...
once you have a combi setup, you can copy multiple versions of it so that you are at least starting with something you like... it takes about a weekend to get this all figured out though...
ha!
mainstage can do it in one second.
have fun, man...
you should TELL KORG about your problems... if they'll listen.
johnroney
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sleepingangel



Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: recording combis and programs in a sequence Reply with quote

I have to say that I love the MicroKorg's sounds especially the combis but I must also say it is the most convoluted at sequencing and saving etc.

Here is the what I have learned and it works:
You can choose a combi you like and then record it with the auto quick recording (great feature) now here's where it gets complicated if you don't figure it out with trial and error and a help from this forum.

1. After you have the sequence you want with the combi's that you want you then play it and you can see with the mute/play button which tracks have music on them. When I used a combi it used about 12 of the tracks okay no problem that still left 4 free. I then go into the sequencer and go into edit song. Then you can add a program to a free track (the one that's not lit up)
even though it may say "distorted guitar" for the track name #6 (but there is nothing there no sound patch) then you add the program from where ever you choose in my case I picked a string patch, next it asks with FX I figured yes, cause I liked the reverb etc. Then ok. When you are done you can play the strings or whatever patch you chose. BUT the darn thing still says "distorted guitar" or whatever. I have NOT found a way to change that. There are many cases of really bad ways to do things and so much his missing. I just can't even be bothered anymore and decided someone else said" use it for what it is out of the box" however, I'm happy that i figured out how to at least make use of the other free tracks. NOW my question is what's the best way to export it to a wave? Obviously that's not included in the machine. I know I can save as a midi file and open in Garageband or Logic but then I don't have some of the sounds I like etc. So, Should I just run a line out and record it into my daw like an instrument or individual tracks by muting etc?
I would love to hear how you all do it. And I hope my explanation of how I sequence was clear
Maria
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Feelgood



Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 29
Location: In the lab

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran into this frustrating problem of assigning programs to tracks in which they didn't play right i.e. efx were disabled, parameters were changed etc; almost immediately. It had gotten to the point where I just said the hell with it and unhooked the MS, deciding that I would come back to it later due to the various learning curves. Due to the shoddiness and poor preparation in which the manual (really CDROM PDF) is packaged with the MS, finding simple answers for common troubleshooting issues becomes a tedious time consuming task sans a proper manual to reference. It seems that if you don't have long-term access to a PC to download the PDF everytime that you have a simple question, than you're just plain out of luck. Strange move on Korg's behalf - is packaging a proper manual really too much to ask? Apparently it is. Confused

Thanks to some of the great advice given in this thread I will definitely have to hook my MS back up to see if I can rectify some of the previous issues that I was previously having.
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johnroney
Junior Member


Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: reading this... Reply with quote

nice to see a few more posts. !
hello all.
you know, i'd be willing to take a shot at your trouble shooting problems.
i've been 360` through the MS now, and i'm pretty confident about my abilities. that being said, it is in fact a HUGE pain in the @$$.
ok...
1. I ran into this frustrating problem of assigning programs to tracks in which they didn't play right i.e. efx were disabled, parameters were changed etc; almost immediately
??... well, what it sounds like is perhaps you just loaded a 'sound' into one of the 16 slots in a combi. a 'sound' is actually different from a PROG because the PROGs all have fx saved with them... seeing as how there are limited FX slots available for combis/SEQs, the sounds would be loaded in but not their FX. if you want to have the FX load too, you must opt for 'COPY From PROG' and 'INCLUDE FX' (this is available via the plugin manager). but wait !... if you do this, any FX settings that you have for all the other remaining slots (that you may have spent hours setting up) will be RESET by the MOST RECENT import (COPY FROM PROGRAM).

and that's the way it is, baby! no way to choose /filter the FX or even to figure out which ones are in common and simply reroute them... it's a full over-write. shitty, huh?
totally not user friendly.

for anyone writing code... how hard would this be? like a 'FIND' feature in all the numerical values to be able to 'share' FX settings when making new imports of PROGS into COMBIS?

like i said, though... i feel rediculous talking about all this... i'm probably the only guy in the world (so it seems!) that is trying to use the MS in this potential.

KORG? anyone want to weigh in on this one?
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johnroney
Junior Member


Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: clarification Reply with quote

just to clarify:

how the MS makes sound.

it takes a layering of about 2 OSC (samples) or so that are put together in the PROG page.
(i haven't had ANY success with being able to multisample the 4 apparent layers that are available...? anyone? bueller?)
there are 360 of them, and none sound really good the way they are!

once you put all this stuff together in the PROG page, and you save your PROG, it will save it as a PROG.

PROGs have FX attached to them, when saved, so that when loading any PROG from the PROG menu, (or from the unit +/- keys) you are going to get the thing that you expect, with all the FX and settings that you saved.
BUT
when you load this same thing from the pulldown menu of the COMBI 16 part slot matrix, you are only loading the PROG with no FX... all the OSC and key parameters, filters, etc.. but NO FX. the MS simply cannot handle 16 x 5 IFX and x 2 MFX and different TFX for each 16 parts!... so, what does the keyboard do? it loads the SOUND that you have been working on, but asks if you want to COPY FX from the PROG (what you would likely want...), or not.

Remedy? what i have started doing is to use NO FX ! ! ! on any of my PROGs... that way, when i load them into COMBI's, i am getting exactly what i am expecting to hear... and then, i know how to add the FX i need after...

SUUUUPPER complicated. sorry everybody. hope that clarifies.
i really want everybody out there to understand this thing.
hopefully there's one of us who is willing to program some code. i don't know how, but i have pretty much just memorized the manual ! ! !
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Feelgood



Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 29
Location: In the lab

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: reading this... Reply with quote

johnroney wrote:
nice to see a few more posts. !
hello all.
you know, i'd be willing to take a shot at your trouble shooting problems.
i've been 360` through the MS now, and i'm pretty confident about my abilities. that being said, it is in fact a HUGE pain in the @$$.
ok...
1. I ran into this frustrating problem of assigning programs to tracks in which they didn't play right i.e. efx were disabled, parameters were changed etc; almost immediately
??... well, what it sounds like is perhaps you just loaded a 'sound' into one of the 16 slots in a combi. a 'sound' is actually different from a PROG because the PROGs all have fx saved with them... seeing as how there are limited FX slots available for combis/SEQs, the sounds would be loaded in but not their FX. if you want to have the FX load too, you must opt for 'COPY From PROG' and 'INCLUDE FX' (this is available via the plugin manager). but wait !... if you do this, any FX settings that you have for all the other remaining slots (that you may have spent hours setting up) will be RESET by the MOST RECENT import (COPY FROM PROGRAM).

and that's the way it is, baby! no way to choose /filter the FX or even to figure out which ones are in common and simply reroute them... it's a full over-write. shitty, huh?
totally not user friendly.

for anyone writing code... how hard would this be? like a 'FIND' feature in all the numerical values to be able to 'share' FX settings when making new imports of PROGS into COMBIS?

like i said, though... i feel rediculous talking about all this... i'm probably the only guy in the world (so it seems!) that is trying to use the MS in this potential.

KORG? anyone want to weigh in on this one?


Bingo. You explained it exactly. You load a program into a track via the process that you described and the efx settings/parameters for that given program totally overwrite the efx settings/parameters for all of the other tracks. Whether you're using a 'User' template or one of the others, the result is always the same. What the hell? Yup. It totally blows. Shocked Confused

I didn't however know about the differentiation between 'sounds' and 'programs' whilst assigning them to tracks. Somehow I overlooked this. I'll definitely have to check into that further.

Another thing that I never really got around to figuring out is using the right templates for the right kind of sound that one is trying to achieve - perhaps this is where part of the solution lies to our problem as it seems that each track in a particular template has it's efx preset to suit a wide array of musical tastes. I suppose by using the programs assigned by default to the tracks and by choosing the desired template you can actually play some of the programs as they actually sound in 'program mode'. Kind of lame though because it seems that there's practically no room for customization or maybe I'm just getting it wrong and overlooking some things? I don't know. I'm dissapointed with the convoluted workflow on this machine to be honest.
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Korg ESX-1
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johnroney
Junior Member


Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: convoluted. Reply with quote

templates:

templates will load in basically new COMBI setups to the SEQ menu.
templates usually divide the 16 parts into different midi channels to allow you overdub different parts, and set up your SEQ like a MIDI file playback (16 part multitimbral)

if you want a slightly different approach, you might want to try COPY FROM COMBI...
so, you're on the SEQ page and you select from the utility menu COPY FROM COMBI.
choose your combi, and the FX! ! ! (otherwise, same problem with the PROGs).

what this can do for you is to load any COMBI setup into the SEQ and then save these as templates, or just use the same method and use the COMBI banks as template libraries....

one snag - most of the COMBIs are setup so that the keyboard plays the whole COMBI part (usually on Gch or Midi Ch1), and there will be probably about half the other parts (of the 16 slots) that are unused (L/R Piano... or, INIT PROG)...

you're going to have to tinker around with the midi channel settings and keyboard zones to get the thing to divide out the way you want it, so that you can overdub parts, but at least you get the SAME FX LAYOUT that you have when you are in COMBI mode... and things SOUND the SAME ! !
and THAT is satisfying.

get my explaination???

KORG- could i win a poo-litzer prize for tech support on this one?
i'm just dying to have KORG speak up to any of this!... pardon my humor.
jr
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