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popmann

25 years of midi...from smite sync to tape on to virtual Insteuments...but, I've never created a sample!

One of my goals is to sell off my aged but completely custom programmed D70. There are 5 or ten custom patches I just can't seem to duplicate by rebuilding. So, I figure I'd sample them. If I were doing them into a disk streamer (Giga/Kontakt/etc) I'd just sample every key at a number of velocities holding for 30 sec...be done...but, what's the easiest way to clone a hardware synth patch with the Kronos?

I suppose it would be easier, due to engine similarities to rebuild it in my xv3080...but, I'd really like to see that retire, too-never fully warmed up to its synths...just the srx string and drum cards...

I know there are some cloning software...that I assume just feeds it exact midi velocities, records the audio and names the wavs appropriately...if there's on that saves in Korg format, though, and it's really a no brainer...might be willing to just spend the money. Really no interest in sound design--just have a collection of sounds I created back when that still really work SO well as "glue".

Thoughts? Advice? Link to a cloning tutorial?

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

For Sampling Robot 4 an update including Korg sample export has been announced. The update should appear soon. It was originally announced for end of February, and such announcements normally don't have Korg editor/vsti magnitudes of delivery delay.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

apex · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 2340

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Did I say something wrong, Apex? Wink

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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

SeedyLee · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:25 am Post subject:

My view is that, if you're sampling an instrument as you're selling it, sample it at the highest-quality and the highest-number of unlooped samples you can. You won't get another chance once it's gone! From these "master samples" of every key, you can set about creating a smaller sample set for a particular application, with loops and ommitted keys if practical.

Consider whether it is necessary to also sample aspects such as after-touch, release noise, modulation etc, dry/wet reverb etc, or whether these effects and nuances can be recreated from a base sample in the sampling engine you'll be using. For example, some hardware instruments I've sampled have a pleasing analogue chorus effect that could not be recreated on the Kronos, so it made sense to sample both wet and dry sample sets.

Sample Robot can help considerably in this process. Save the samples as WAVE or AIFF for future compatability, then edit on the Kronos Smile

Lee
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Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

popmann · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject:

I didn't even consider doing it without pitch. Too much part of the sound. Good point to make sure the reverb is off, though. That will mean, on these, no need for release samples.

Will look into this Sample Robot.

popmann · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject:

Man...I totally know why I have avoided samplers in the past. Still a PIA.

But, I have failed to recreate via synthesis/layering on either the Kronos, Kontakt, or XV-3080. the charm of these layers are in how terrible the individual components sound--or more accurately, how NOT like what they were emulating they sound like. I found it better, as an example to work with digital Clav wavs on more modern synths than the steel string ax gtr samples--despite the d70 layer having an acoustic guitar label. Every time I got what I thought sounded good, I went to the original and realized how much more cohesive a sound it was. Oh, well.

I've got the audio hooked up though the Kronos now. Sampling is indeed the last resort. Probably also sample some components to the sounds--specifically, the guitar/Clav and bells.

popmann · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:35 am Post subject:

Sample Robot to SoundFont seems to do pretty well. I do hate the way it converts 4 velocity switches in stereo to two programs and a combi. Seems like with two OSC (l and right) and 8 way switching...well, I'll export them as WAV and try to work them up manually.

Lando · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:48 am Post subject:

Sample Robot looks awesome but is PC only, anyone know of a god Mac alternative?
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Sharp · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject:

Lando · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject:

plisken · Junior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2011 Posts: 88

The best auto sampler for MAC is redmatica. Its possibly the best auto sampler out of them all but its only on MAC.

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/AutoSampler.html

popmann · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject:

Running into some weirdness...

So, I load one--alter the program as I want and save. Go in and save all sampling data. Right?

Problem is, if I unload it to work on the next...the next loads up with the same RAM pointers...so the program for the first is using the WAV data I just loaded to make the second. This, I would imagine would bite me in the ass once I get RAM enough to just have them all autoload, no?

Right now, I can load one KSC (choosing to clear RAM)...and then load the next (again clearing RAM)...and they work...but, the program stays even without the samples loaded to RAM. Click on it and it's some absurd sounding thing because it's the WAVs of another patch with the ADSR of that one...

How do you all manage these things? Is it really not relative? Like I load PatchOne.KSC...it doesn't load it's programs and samples to RAM in the next available slots? It really shouldn't matter if I load PatchTwo.KSC first or PatchOne.KSC...should it? I feel like I"m missing something fundamental about the way the Kronos manages the sample/file/program/combo hierarchy.

popmann · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:06 am Post subject:

So, follow up Q on the last post. Having the stock RAM, I've been following this method:

Load the sf2 that SampleRobot generated.
Edit the Korg "program" the import generates. Where it creates two, I consolidate to one.
Save all sampling data to KSC on the SSD.
Dump RAM
Repeat for next patch.

I don't have the RAM to load all these at once. I can load each one...and the "program" is as I left it...but, OTHER programs share the sample data, which seems to be referenced by absolute sample position. So, this makes me think that once I have enough RAM to load the whole collection (or just multiple patches) it's going to either load each into the same slots (overwriting each other) OR load all the sample data, but the programs will only reference the first ten slots or so.

But, if this is the behavior, I just don't see how one works with a HD full of samples that in any given session you might want to load different combinations (literal-not Korg definition) of programs.

Is there some way I can load/edit/resave to avoid this happening?

popmann · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:16 am Post subject:

Side note...MAN, I have no technical explanation for this...but, the patches sound SO much nicer played on the Kronos. I mean--I'm recording it via the same KSP8 converters that I record audio with...you would think it would accurately record the weird grainy high end of the analog outputs of the old D70--like how would it sound "better"? I'm not applying filters. Of course the fx sound better--but, even before turning that on, it sounds better. It's like there a gentleness to the high end thats not there in the original outputs. Odd.