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MRedZac

Hello Korg !

After a small test drive on your new editor software, I have to say that it is a complete mess ! - First of all, there´s quite a lot of connection problems, especially if using a usb prolongation, not having to place the synth directly next to DAW. Connection regularly ends up in loops and no synchronisation is possible, even all other midi devices have been removed from the computer before...
But much more than this: What you were thinking about, as you decided for Windows only to provide a 32-Bit Plugin, which is not capable to be run on 64-Bit Hosts ???? - I would have understood this decission about 3 years ago, but nowadays, as almost every professional plugin is available in 64-Bits as well and users are moving to 64-Bit platforms, it´s really poor of you - after letting people wait for the editor/vst-plugin for 12 months now - not being able to provide a functional 64-Bit version of the VST-Plugin for a so called professional top class synth... Really poor and just unprofessional, shame on you and SoundQuest !

So for those, having the same problem with 64-Bit Hosts, at least for Windows-Steinberg-Users, I have thought about a small workaround:

While having your main DAW in 64 Bit (Cubase or Nuendo), you can connect a second computer (this can be an older one or laptop) with a 32 bit Steinberg host (Cubase, Nuendo) via VST-System-Link to your main DAW and link the Kronos like this into your main 64 Bit DAW... Tools like VST Bridge or jBridge do NOT work. So I think, for now this is the only way on how to get this done...

Garfield
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Keys+Sound Sources: Kronos 61, X2, X3, i3, i30, SG pro X, nanoPAD2, Yamaha MU100R, 2x CME UF70, Behringer FCB-1010, Yamaha FC-7
Sequencer: Steinberg Cubase Pro 8 & Nuendo 6.5
Outboard FX from Lexcion, Sony and Yamaha
Digital Mixers only from Yamaha

http://www.mediacoustics.eu

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QuiRobinez · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:09 am Post subject:

Jbridge does work (with the exception of combi's), but the way i try to use it now is to run the standalone editor of the Kronos next to cubase 6.5 64 bit.

But i fully agree, in 2012 this is a really bad design descision to only supply a 32 bit version in midiquest xl where it's hardly usable even in 32 bits due to the sysex delay in midiquest. For instance changing a preset takes almost 4 seconds before the kronos is ready again for trying out that sound. That's absolutely not needed. All my other editors are working way better then this one. Even the Korg M3 editor was miles ahead of this kronos editor.

But they did what they promised, they delivered the editor, so that's fine. I'm not going to use it because in a modern setup it's unusable, but ok, they did deliver but made some wrong choices.

I'm going to use the Kronos the 1990 way for automation and total recall. I wasn't expecting this, but there isn't an other way with that editor.

curvebender · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:44 am Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

After the first hours with editor and plugin I am sorry to share the very mixed and rather critical feelings. I really tried to look positive at it and work my way into it, hoping to find a way to profit from it in any way I had expected, but that seems hard to achieve.

- I can to a certain degree live with the 32bit limitation, because I still have a 32bit version of my sequencer running on a 64bit Windows. But of course I would prefer a 64bit version as nowadays is standard in the whole Windows world of music making, after the even last among the prominent VSTis received a 64bit update (Arturia softsynths etc.) and my Access TI plugin is running as 64bit version since a while.

- the driver provided for the Kronos audio connection is simply completely unuseable in Windows due to incredible latency issues. So it seems to me so far, that I can forget about streaming audio between the Kronos and PC/Notebook via the Kronos soundcard. It is inexcuseable not to deliver an Asio Windows driver, as any other serious hardware synth with Windows software connection (at least which I know) does.

- the sysex-concept for such a complex OS just doesn't work in any convincing way, as far as I can see. Using this system is full of delays and interruptions. Getting a certain kind of advice in a manual, like not using certain parts of the information flow, to avoid interruptions due to information overflow, simply tells me that the concept does not work as a whole, but only as a kind of workaround system.

- oldfashioned surface: the job done to cover almost all areas of the original Kronos OS has been a big task and deserves respect, but it also was done in quite an unintelligent way. The better possibilities of a big PC monitor were not used for better overviews of contexts in any way, instead the limitations of the Oasys/Kronos screens were kept: that does not make any sense to me. No better modulation matrix overview, no better AL-1 overview etc. A big chance missed completely.

- VSTi function: I have not yet understood some things, like the plugin use in Sonar X1. It was no problem to create a Kronos VST instrument track.
But I don't understand how to use it.
The manual does not give any instructive examples for the five or six main software sequencers (like my Access TI manual does).
Instead I read a passage which I only understand in part, and which does not answer my questions for concrete use in any way:
I read:
"• Even though the plug-in must be created with an audio track, the KRONOS Editor plug-in does not create any audio. It is used solely to control the instrument via MIDI. As a result, you can always keep the audio fader for the track pulled down.
• Any MIDI events that you want to be played by your MIDI instrument should not be placed on the KRONOS Editor plug-in track. This is critical. The plug-in is installed in an audio track and audio tracks do not have
accurate MIDI timing.
•Important: Any MIDI events intended for the instrument must be recorded to a MIDI track and directed to the MIDI port that the instrument is connected to. Failure to follow these instructions may result in jittery playback."

Can anyone translate these sentences to a practical solution for recording 4 or 5 Kronos midi and audio tracks including controller data and keeping total recall while doing so?

Conclusion:
After one year of waiting it was quite an upleasant surprise to find this hardly useable software solution, accompanied by a manual which was written without any substantial instruction for plugin use.

So far I can only repeat what QRobinez said: In that form both editor and plugin will hardly be used here, after all this time of waiting and hoping for a real workflow boost. Korg can say that they delivered now, but users can hardly profit much from the result.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

Cpilot · Senior Member Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Posts: 427

Well there are advantages to being stuck in the past as I am. While I'm not exactly impressed with the editor, everything works perfectly on my 32 bit Windows XP laptop.

Bryan

Shakil · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject:

ScoobyDoo555 · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject:

Well, I thought I'd give the editor/plug another chance today - just in case I happened to be in a bad mood yesterday.

I've spent the last 6 hours in production/composing mode and here's what I found.
First some basics -
Using MacBook Pro 2.66 C2Duo with 8 gig ram and Logic 9.1.7 (32 bit mode). Using Kronos purely as a MIDI device rather than audio interface.
Up to yesterday, this system FLEW. No issues at all.

Today, I'm sorry to say that the results are not looking good.

The key thing is that I sat down with Kronos with the sole aim of creating something... and that has been achieved - despite the best attempts of the conflicting software to thwart my efforts!!! Laughing

What I have noticed is primarily SERIOUS slow-downs of my Mac with the using the Kronos in plug-in mode (add new software instrument/Kronos).
It is slow to initially boot up, and then spends most of its run-time, acting like the confused old person, not sure exactly where it's left it's glasses.

This had a secondary affect on screen re-draws in Logic, glitchy arrange page issues.

The sad thing is that the Kronos behaves very well, but kinda sits there like a quizzical puppy, waiting for the next command.

And so, I've made a decision:

until Korg sort out the software, I'm removing it from my system - it's too glitchy, too slow and does the exact opposite of improving/speeding up my workflow.

I'm reverting back to simple MIDI I/O and the speed of workflow will be back to how it was prior to yesterday.

V1.6 is fine though - no issues at all with that now, and quite happy.

Dan
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Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.

blinkofanI · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject:

Out of boredom last night, i also gave the Plugin editor a try. I can understand someone with a bad eyesight using it, but still, on the 27" Thuderbolt display, the fonts are not that bigger than on the Kronos itself. Reading the warning in the manual about using the plugin in Logic, it started very bad!!

Anyway, i much prefer using the K display since the editor gives me less options(no way to copy FX from Program in a Combi, etc). All the mixing, FX, EQ, etc are all dealt with on the K screen real fast and i only send 6 outputs to the Logic mixer to blend the K with the other soft synths.

Just not for me, as i suspected. As i said earlier, if the editor ever gives me the opportunity to edit a Prog inside a Combi, i could think of using it.

Blink
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System 1: Korg Z1EX with UA Apollo Twin X and M1 Macbook Air. System 2: Korg Trinity V3 with HDR, DSI Mopho DT, Korg 01/W Pro, Soundcraft NotePad-8FX.

Lou · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject:

ScoobyDoo555 · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject:

yeh Lou,

I'd done that. Doesn't explain the screen/graphic glitches though.....
_________________
Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Lou · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:

Jim,
From my understanding, just work as you always have, with the addition of a Kronos editor track loaded, for editing purposes if you choose..
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Lou

Broadwave · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject:

Oh dear... The AU plug in, sadly, is almost unusable Crying or Very sad

I've spent all day on this, and although it's capable of sending real time CC data to the Kronos, no matter how much I try, Logic just will not record anything directly from the plug in, so on-the-fly edits are a no go. I'll have to carry on using Kronos' control surface for the time being.

Program changes also take too long, "Rendering, rendering, rendering", and If I try to use the bank feature to select a new program, quite often instead of changing the program, it will change the bank from AA to GG!!!

As a standalone editor it's ok (just), but for DAW "integration"?

The software I had when I owned the Korg Micro X was great, the plug-in worked as it was supposed to, nothing glitched and all was well in the world.

It's not beaten me yet... I'm going to try it in a Windows setup - I'm sure I've got a copy of Cubase LE somewhere!

Rant over... I need a cup of tea and a nap!
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Synth DIY Projects

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Lou, what I seek is complete settings recall plus complete editing/controller recording "per Kronos track", for each track recorded, not just one "interface window at the Kronos" as a whole.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

Lou · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject:

Hi Jim, by no means am I applauding the editor. But if you use the editor in Combi or sequencing mode you will have your limited editing and recall functions available per track upon saving the DAW project.

Or maybe I misunderstood you?
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Lou