Korg Forums

[rs.felicio]

Guys,

I really enjoyed most of functions available on software, but I could not understand or find key points, for example:

- I can't find a way to load or import PCG files.
It's possible? I think is very usefull process to test / see different paths without use a pen drive.

- I can't understand too, why there isn't a "context menu".
For example to copy IFX from program on SEQ mode ou copy a PROG to combi

- Finally, manage the set lists is too complicated, for example it's possible copy or swap more than one slot, as a "bank editor" available in other views?
I can't find!!!

Thanks!!!

[RonF]

The way I see the editor as it was designed is that it is not so much a traditional editor/librarian, as it is a software extension/mirror of the Kronos hardware user interface. What it does, almost exclusively, is add mouse/keyboard enhancements to the existing Kronos user interface. And, if you use the right resolution monitor screen, it blows up the Kronos U.I. for easier visual cues. Beyond that......it adds no real functionality, and in fact does not seek to replicate or enhance any of the Disk mode functions, or act as a librarian on the computer. Its strictly a means to have alternative user input in the editing experience. Rather than touching a touch-screen....you can input with mouse and keyboard. Sometimes its nice, such as using graphical envelopes, and adjusting the points by dragging them with a mouse. Other times, its pretty much the same as working on the K itself. Perhaps some will find it faster, and easier to see.

As far as PCG's go....you load them in Disk mode on the Kronos hardware itself....Then you can edit the content using the editor. As far as copying effects, you make such file copies on the Kronos itself....then you can edit the content using the editor. Pretty much all file related operations....you work on the hardware, then you can edit the result in the software. Another example....the software doesn't appear to access the effects presets....you have to load or save a preset on the hardware itself...then you can edit the content using the editor.

The editor is expressly designed to EDIT the content of combis, progs, wave seq's, drum kits, set lists, and globals. Its not intended to work at a higher level of file management than this.

It took me a bit to get my head around using it. But once you start looking at the Kronos as the primary computer.....and the PC running the editor as merely a satellite user input vehicle for editing functions....then it starts to make some sense. Like many I suspect, I first approached it as a traditional editor/librarian, expecting the PC to be the master computer...and the Kronos hardware as a mere slave. Such is not the case with the Kronos editor. Once you get the correct perspective....the editor makes more sense.....but it also highlights the editors limitations....and missed opportunities.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[jimknopf]

So much work for something like that?
Isn't that quite a heavy mis-proportion between one year of work and the tiny benefit, which Kronos users get from it for their workflow?

I still hope someone at Korg has a hidden masterplan for making something real of that.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[rs.felicio]

Ron,

I appreciate your comments and understand the scope restrictions of a product (I work for a software company).

I believe that your point of view is perfect, considering we're all in a studio with the Kronos and the Editor side by side.

But for many of us, the possibility of using the editor stand alone is very important. For years, I use this option on my old Motif XS .... many times during the lunch time I changed a set list or imported a new bank, etc .... functions that would save my "rare" time at night.

As I said, I enjoyed the most functions of editor, it's really cool, but I think there are same important functions that can be incorporated.

[RonF]

I completely agree with you rs.felicio. But alas the Kronos editor in this release has no further functionality that what I've described. I think its a huge missed opportunity.

Its funny, I find this editor, which is an 'enhancement' to the Kronos system, similar to the recent 1.5 OS which added support for class compliant USB devices, namely the nanoPad (or other pad controller). In both cases, these "enhancements" essentially do nothing more than "make up for" deficiencies or missing features from the Oasys, in the Kronos.

The Oasys had hardware pad controllers on board. Such are missing on the Kronos. The "touch screen pads" of Kronos are not practical in a number of ways. So Korg adds class complaint USB extensions, and you can add on a separate piece of hardware (with the inconveniences of such being a *separate* piece of hardware) to add the basic functionality of a hardware Pad bank. Then the Oasys had this huge adjustable screen which was properly proportioned for the Oasys on screen interface. The Kronos has the same on screen interface, but scaled down to a much smaller non adjustable screen, thus making it less practical to edit upon and view. So Korg provides another "add-on" which allows for blowing up the screen size, and adding mouse/keyboard input.

Suddenly the Kronos is feeling like a sprawled out patched together modular system, all to bring it up to the level of basic functionality which was self contained in the Oasys. All this is done, rather than actually tweaking the Kronos on screen interface away from the Oasys, so it can be customized to fit the Kronos hardware platform. I would like to see Korg actually advance the Oasys U.I. beyond the Oasys....to be customized for the Kronos form factor. These add-ons are a band-aid over the real opportunity to turn Kronos into a 2012 flagship cutting edge workstation. They seek to make up for deficiencies of the Kronos under the Oasys.....but it could be so much more! JMHO of course.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[danatkorg]

Personally, I find the editor's handling of child/parent relationships to be quite useful.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com

[RonF]

[Shakil]

I am sure there is some major misunderstanding about this editor. The editor IS an excellent librarian.

I do not have KRONOS yet, but I was able to install the editor, and I can edit everything from the preload SQ set file, and then save my changes as SQ set file. I can save individual programs as SQ Patch files. Combis and .cmb files, Songs and .sng

When I start up it gives an error that it couldn't find a KRONOS, but I click on cancel All, then File Open and load the KRONOS Factory. SQS file. Then I can modify anything, and save it as a new file. I can go back to it any time.

I guess if I had KRONOS, I would isntall the editor on several computers, and transfer the SQS file from one computer to other where ever I would be able to work on it. Then I would go the computer that had the KRONOS linked to, I would load the updated SQS file in the editor, and the would select MIDI>Transmit Entire Set. Or I could transmit individual song, combi or program or bank to KRONOS. Then Save the PCG file on KRONOS.

Also, I do see there are PDF manuals available from the editor menu. The KRONOS Editor Manual that explains very clearly how to use the editor as a Librarian.

So, I would start with importing all data from PCG file loaded into KRONOS to the editor, then Save the set as Editor native format (SQ Set file), and go from there...
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol.

[RonF]

It does act as a librarian as it relates to the SoundQuest format.....not as it relates to the PCG format.....at least not that I can see. When you open an SQ file in the editor, you need to transmit the, lets say a program, to the Kronos, and then you need to save the PCG on the Kronos hardware if you want to have your edits remain on the hardware. I agree with you Shakil, however, there are apparently quite a few misconceptions about the functionality of the editor, both stand alone, and as a plug in (perhaps especially as a plug in).
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[danatkorg]

[xmlguy]

Dan, the choice is not between small windows and large windows. Any fixed size window is certainly going to be a problem for some significant subset of users.

The design choice is between fixed windows of any size vs. resizeable windows. Resizeable windows are the obvious design choice when typical screen real estate can vary from 800x600 to 5120x1440 for a dual headed high rez system. You can buy 1980x1200 LCD for about $100, these days, for chrissakes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116477R

[Shakil]

[xmlguy]

[danatkorg]

[xmlguy]

I've built applications where individual windows can be hosted in multiple application environments, such as fixed windows (modal dialog boxes), resizeable windows, web applets, and plugins to other apps, all without a lot of extra work so long as that's part of the initial requirements. This is why the model-view-controller design pattern is used, along with pluggable interfaces, so that these UI dependencies can be minimized or eliminated. Some of us use editor software primarily as a standalone app, not as a plug-in, so it seems like the choice to make a single app to serve both purposes was part of the problem that led to the unacceptable design compromises.

The editor was an essential factor in my purchase of the Kronos, and there's no chance that I will buy the product based on the current editor design. That's the only reason I jumped in to the Kronos threads to comment on the editor. I consider the editor to be an essential part of the workstation, since that's how I primarily access it for programming and sound design. I don't bitch just to bitch. I only bitch about things that really affect my practical use of the products. Then I vote with my wallet. Korg hasn't been getting many of my greenback votes, of late. As an owner of a ton of Korg gear, that makes me sad.