Korg Forums

MinorKey · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: M50 and Blind Users?

Hi there.

I'm seriously planning on getting myself an M50. However, I have a somewhat specific problem. Because I'm nearly blind it's not possible for me to use the touchview display. I don't expect to be using very advanced stuff, at least not alone, but still...
Basically, I would just need to memorize how to switch between different patches or programs. But I'd also want to store and select my own patches and programs whenever I please. I would like to know how to load patches downloaded from the internet into the machine as well.
Are there blind friendly workarounds at least for some of the issues I've mentioned, that don't include the display?
- I've heard that it is possible to select patches or programs in this manner. But is it also possible, for example, to select patches or programs stored in the D bank with the help of only physical buttons?
- If it's absolutely not possible to save things without the display, than fine - I can get over it. But I sincerely hope that at least the recalling part does not require eyes.

Many thanks.

michelkeijzers · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject:

As far as I know you can do anything with the physical buttons only.

However, depending on the current screen keys might have a different meaning giving feedback which you will miss.

You can select patches with the up/down and dial but this requires visual feedback (unless you know which is the current patch you can select the up/down button).

You also can use the numeric keypad for entering numbers, I think this is the way to go. Every bank has its own button and changing between program, combi, seq etc is also by a dedicated physical button.

About saving: pressing the Rec/Write and maybe one or two other buttons (for yes/no) saves a patch, this can be done also by you without any problem (I don't have the synth near me). Changing parameters will be more difficult though.

About loading patches from internet, this mostly depends on your computer, you got to load PCG files (korgforums or other web sites), save them to a SD card and load them. Loading them can be done in a specific manner but visual feedback helps.

If you can read this (I don't know if you have e.g. a magnifying glass or other means) you might use PCG Tools, increase it with a magnifier and change patch orders on a PC screen.
_________________

Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/

MinorKey · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject:

michelkeijzers · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject:

In case you don't have the synth yet (otherwise too btw), you could already download the PDF manual (or is that considered graphical too) ... it explains all buttons in detail.
_________________

Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/

MinorKey · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject:

PDFs are Ok. I actually already have the manual, but since I have other duties at the moment, I don't have the time to look into it. So I'm bothering you forum members instead Very Happy

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billbaker · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject:

MinorKey,

My friend Jeremy faced many of the same issues, being completely blind from birth. We've talked about methodology a couple of times. His primary method is rote memorization. What this means to him is that he's stuck with the system he knows really well, in his case it is the KORG 01W Factory Programs. He can navigate very quickly to find his favorites, but doesn't do a whole lot with new sounds or patch order.

Because of the relatively uncomplicated architecture, he is able to navigate some of the edit screens using the up, down, number keypad and some of the face plate buttons to get around.

I'm not vision impaired. But like Jeremy I was daunted by the "back to step one" approach that getting a new synth brings on. How do you get around on a synth when the system you're used to has changed... and not in any logical manner (if there was logic before)?

Despite this, I've changed synths a bunch of times. I've found that one thing that helps me is to build a User Bank (at least one) that keeps roughly the same voice structure as my previous synths.

In the mid-80's Alesis's QS series synths used a voice navigation scheme that was similar to GM in that it grouped categories of sound (i.e., piano, organ, lead synth, etc.) but in groups of 10. If you can remember category order (12 groups) you can remember locations of patches within that group (0-9).

I was using two keyboards in my set-up at the time; a QS-8 and the other was an 01W. Because I didn't want to deal with conflicting systems I opted to use the QS-8's structure on the Korg -- one logical map for two keyboards.

For the past 15 years or so Korg has featured user banks and freely rewritable programs and combis, so I've kept that Alesis map in every synth I've owned since, including 01W, Trinity, Triton Classic, Triton Extreme, and EMU modules -- even tho' I no longer use the QS in my gigging set-up. If I ever get a new board I'll throw up a bank on that as well. I've played the M50 and don't see any problem doing the same on that.

It makes navigating using the number pad a breeze.

------------------

As far as saving patches, I believe you can audition patches from media before saving which is a nice feature for you, but as to knowing where you're writing programs to or being able to call them up quickly, I'd say that was best done with sighted help (even unskilled will do) or using a program like Michel Keijzers that you can use a screen reader with.

BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

michelkeijzers · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject:

MinorKey · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject:

michelkeijzers · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject:

On the Kronos there is the Exit button if I'm right that brings you back to the first page/tab.

I think for the M50 there is also such function (Page 0). As long as you do not want to do complex changes, you can go to a lot of functions only within a few keys...however you have to remember them.
_________________

Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/

billbaker · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject:

You can use the arrow keys, but using the number keypad is fairly foolproof.

Once you get used to using the keypad the ergonomics take over - it's the same layout as a telephone with the addition of the enter key at the lower right. For example, getting my favorite vocal pad, stored in slot 9 of my pads group (9), is just a matter of punching in 9-9-Enter. That is something you can find by touch whether you're setting patches on a dark stage, blinded by spotlights, or visually impaired and sitting in your studio.

All my "best" patches are in the same USER Bank set up and mapped using that logical format.

Jumping around is easier when you know, for example, that all your "fast synths" for comping on things like 'Jump' or 'Living on a Prayer' are found in the Eights group -- 8 plus another number gets you a comp synth -- no other kind is stored there.

Zero + enter (000) gets me my 'go-to' piano, but zero + any number still gets me a piano of some kind. Even if I blow the second number, the first one gets me close.

These days I never use the touchscreen to get to new programs/combis, and only rarely the up-down and then only if I miss by a digit.

BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

MinorKey · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys,

Due to your great input I already feel a little familiar with the machine Very Happy

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It's always about memorizing, I guess - at least in the begining. But after some time you start doing things automatically regardless whether you see or not, so as I said: time and practice.
I'm only glad that all in all I should be Ok without the display.

@billbaker:
The way your bank is organized looks pretty cool. Would take some time to setup though.

billbaker · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject:

The most time consuming part is listening to the sounds to find the ones you like and the ones you need for jobs (those two sets are not always the same).

Once you have a list of candidates you cut it down to ten of each.

Then, once you have the list its a matter of just a couple of hours work using an editor/librarian like PCG Tools to get them in order. The time-suck there is the temptation to play as you go so doing it on a computer is actually an advantage.

Here is the map I use, based on the old QS structure.

0 = pianos (solo, rock, layered, +string, +pad) 000 to 009
1 = other key instruments (clav, EP, tuned percussion) 010 to 019
2 = organ (B3, Farfisa, pipe)
3 = guitar (dirty, clean, acoustic)
4 = bass (acoustic, electric, synth)
5 = strings (large ensembles, small ensemble, solo)
6 = brass (Ensembles and solo)
7 = winds (flutes, reed, sax)
8 = comp (Fast synth)
9 = pad (Slow synth)
10 = lead synths (changed to polyphonic for maximum usability)
11 = ethnic instruments: accordion, banjo, sitar, kalimba, etc.
12 = drums / SFX 12-0 to 127

If you are deeply committed to a single genre like industrial or hip-hop you may not find this as useful; you won't need oboe, xylophone or bagpipes.

However, if you play a variety of music from a lot of different eras and genres you'll soon realize how 3 or 4 instruments from most of these categories will always be applicable to that.

With the sound palate I've assembled I can cover country, reggae, rock, jazz, pop, dance, and church music without ever really needing to leave my User Bank.

BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

Pincho Paxton · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 87

The M50 has many screens, and each screen is split up into about 5 more sub screens. Although you can control a lot of this using sliders, and buttons, I don't know how you are going to know which screen you are on.

I find it hard to navigate each screen even by looking at it.

But if you just want to play the M50 as a musical instrument. then the Combi mode is not so complicated. The Up Down buttons will take you through all of the combis. There is a problem that the drum tracks are hardly ever in the same place. If you want to change the drums it might be tricky.

It would be a good idea for someone to make a set of combis with all of the instruments layed out in the same places, and then you would manage to edit the instruments quite easily.

rajarshi_sl · Full Member Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 114

why dont u opt for roland gears like juno di or gw 8.....they all have some 9 or 10 assignable buttons right beneath the display, to save ur favourite programs and call them up on the fly

below is the link to a picture which shows how the favourite patches can be called up using the favourite keys.....a must for blind keyboardists

http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/feb09/images/RolandJunoStage_02.jpg

another one showing juno di

http://www.rolandee.cz/upload/40000151/image_05_L.jpg

MinorKey · Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: