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videorov
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Joined: 20 Jan 2011
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jimknopf
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Just went through the EPs and some other sounds.
Aren't that the same old tiny sample sounds we know since long?
The only sounds that always impressed me on the Kurz are some well programmed orchstral sounds. And the sweetwater sounds are on good old soundfont level in my ears.
Sorry, but I prefer my Kronos sounds BY FAR, with the only exception of guitar sounds.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Last edited by jimknopf on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zzz
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Just across from there
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Since they're sample cds, can't we load them into the K? |
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jimknopf
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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No, Sweetwater has a series of sample CDs in Kurzweil format.
As I said, they have 89s/90s soundfont quality: some useable stuff, but all in all nothing special.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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arne v
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Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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I have listened to it and i must say that having my ears on "kronos standard" this does not even come close. It sounded muffled and the demos was like a deflated baloon.. sorry, but thats my opinion. 
The keyboard looks great, but thats all  |
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Kevin Nolan
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: Re: How can you beat these sounds and built like a tank |
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| videorov wrote: | http://kurzweil.com/product/pc3k8/audio/
Pretty amazing sounds and multi layers some 10 to 20 thick.
If Kurzweil comes out with a another all new unit, Look out.
This is killer right now.
More Guitar sounds are killer to here on new demo and the new sounds
are only $129 list or free with a keyboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FnEmqppUBs&feature=related
Something to listen to and not just read what people say.
The ear can tell you alot. |
I own a K2500XS, fully expanded with the various ROMS, KVFX, Hard Disk and so on. I find it an exquisite instrument in many ways:
- VAST sounds excellent and even offers virtual analogue in essence in that it models its subtractive synth waveforms (i.e. they are not sampled)
- It offers a virtual drawbar organ that's as good as the best of them
- The keyboard action is excellent and better than the OASYS RH2 in my opinion (though it’s not graded hammer action)
- It has an excellent main ribbon controller with three zones
- It has excellent connectivity, competing with many top-end workstations in that regard still.
However, its main disadvantage – and a major one at that - is that VAST is absolute brutal to program. On the K2500 it's just 6 (8 ?) layers deep - but that means that to modify just one sound parameter for any given program - say Cutoff Frequency - that you have to modify the Cutoff frequency for each filter in each of the 8 layers – that’s 8 filters to change just for one overall sound modification. It’s the same for every parameter – 8 sets of each parameter to modify!
Furthermore - the value range of each parameter is complete unintuitive - so it's near on impossible to even know what value to set the parameter to. I have many years experience in programming and I have never successfully edited even one Kurzweil sound.
Now - the Kurzweil range today:
- Essentially the same user interface as the K2500 of 18 years ago
- The keyboard action is a pale shadow of the K2500 - it's among the worst keyboard actions I have ever come across.
- The same synth architecture and synth engine as 18 years ago with quite minor or utterly “yesterdays era” updates to the samples.
- VAST -now 32 layers deep - great if you have years to build a single program but for any mortal an utterly impenetrable architecture - to affect the Cutoff frequency of a 32 layer program you have to modify the value of 32 filters
- The main ribbon controller is gone
- It is NOT build like a tank. I have looked very closely at their latest range in retail outlets and the current Kurzweils are chunky, tacky and cheap - I am convinced they would not survive any sort of gigging routine.
Overall, Kurzweil made a generation-defining workstation in the K2500 that is still quite respectable even today - but every bit of its class and physical chassis capabilities have been abandoned and squandered by Kurzweil - while the remaining bits are 20 years out of date.
I cannot comprehend how anyone in their right mind would even contemplate purchasing a Kurzweil today. I feel the company even verging on being a scam organisations in the electronic musical instrument industry, and really needs to look at itself long and hard.
There is absolutely no competition between any Kurzweil and the likes of the Korg Kronos, in my opinion.
Kevin. |
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MRedZac
Senior Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 374
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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There´s some brass sounds in there, which I like in orchestra context, but organ, epiano, etc. cannot convince me... All sounds so far away and not to forget about the ugly bad quality fx, like reverbs and leslies...
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Keys+Sound Sources: Kronos 61, X2, X3, i3, i30, SG pro X, nanoPAD2, Yamaha MU100R, 2x CME UF70, Behringer FCB-1010, Yamaha FC-7
Sequencer: Steinberg Cubase Pro 8 & Nuendo 6.5
Outboard FX from Lexcion, Sony and Yamaha
Digital Mixers only from Yamaha
http://www.mediacoustics.eu
You smoke electric cigarettes ? - Looking for the best liquid to refill them ? - See this:
http://www.steamshop24.eu |
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AdDeRoo
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 524
Location: Northern Italy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Owning a Kurzweil K2500R since 15 years, and owning a Kronos88 now, there's only a few sounds I wish I could convert to Kronos, such as the Sweetwater Ultimate Guitars sample CDROM, and a few other favorites, but as mentioned by others already, pianos, epianos, organs, synths are all way better in the Kronos.
And also I do believe Korg does a fine job with organising the software and the manuals in such a case that a user has a chance to understand the vast capabilities. I found the Kurz always pretty complex to use..
For the moment I still use the K2500R and Kronos in parallel, but I would be happy to convert the few Kurzweil sounds that I am still using and stick to the Kronos..
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Ad
Current gear : Korg Kronos 88 (SN 0979) / Nektar LX88+ / Korg PA2X / Kurzweil K2500R / Korg Nanopad2 / Neo Ventilator / Akai EWI USB / Cantabile / Reaper / Cakewalk / Reason / way too many VST's |
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levioter
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that to my ears the only big gap are the guitar sounds.
The Kronos Factory samples are not so good.
When a good Kronos sample library with excellent guitars in it ?
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KORG KRONOS73 -- Minimoog Model-D -- KORG M1 -- M-AUDIO FastTrack C600 -- M-AUDIO AXIOM-25MK2 -- Roland Vdrum TD12KV |
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AdDeRoo
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 524
Location: Northern Italy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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if Korg/Karo could produce a guitar sample library of the quality of the good old Sweetwater Ultimate Guitars for the Kurzweil, or even better, I'd be a happy customer and buy them!
From the add somehwere end of the 1990's:
This is it - the CD-ROM that Keyboard Magazine awarded an unprecedented 20 out of 20 stars! And we KNOW you'll agree! Created right here by our very own soundware development team, the Ultimate Guitars CD-ROM for Kurzweil K2000 Series features over 350 megabytes of new and vintage electric and acoustic guitars. You'll find Les Pauls, Strats, Paul Reed Smiths, Gretsches, Martins, Taylors, and more! Plus basses! Your ultimate guitar sound is here!
And I must say, I still agree with that text, they sound amazing.
_________________
Ad
Current gear : Korg Kronos 88 (SN 0979) / Nektar LX88+ / Korg PA2X / Kurzweil K2500R / Korg Nanopad2 / Neo Ventilator / Akai EWI USB / Cantabile / Reaper / Cakewalk / Reason / way too many VST's |
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DennyC
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 938
Location: Tucson, Az
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Built like a tank...thought they were referring to my Oasys. No doubt Kurzweils' were cutting edge at one time. I do like their sounds, except most of them are not up to the Kronos level. I was enjoying both the O and the K last night.
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Kronos 2 61, Wavestation A/D, Yamaha Genos and others. |
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1jordyzzz
Platinum Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 688
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hey i think kronos kicks with its orchestral sounds (with expansion though  )
https://korg.com/kronos
Click "sound libraries & shop", EXs11 legendary strings.... Listen to a demo called EXcalevation (for dynamics)... It's like the whole orchestra plays in front of you 
For guitar sounds, it's covered on my yamaha PSR s910... Besides, i don't really use them that much..
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Love my kronos 88
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room.. |
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videorov
Full Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: How can you beat these sounds and built like a tank |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | videorov wrote: | http://kurzweil.com/product/pc3k8/audio/
Pretty amazing sounds and multi layers some 10 to 20 thick.
If Kurzweil comes out with a another all new unit, Look out.
This is killer right now.
More Guitar sounds are killer to here on new demo and the new sounds
are only $129 list or free with a keyboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FnEmqppUBs&feature=related
Something to listen to and not just read what people say.
The ear can tell you alot. |
I own a K2500XS, fully expanded with the various ROMS, KVFX, Hard Disk and so on. I find it an exquisite instrument in many ways:
- VAST sounds excellent and even offers virtual analogue in essence in that it models its subtractive synth waveforms (i.e. they are not sampled)
- It offers a virtual drawbar organ that's as good as the best of them
- The keyboard action is excellent and better than the OASYS RH2 in my opinion (though it’s not graded hammer action)
- It has an excellent main ribbon controller with three zones
- It has excellent connectivity, competing with many top-end workstations in that regard still.
However, its main disadvantage – and a major one at that - is that VAST is absolute brutal to program. On the K2500 it's just 6 (8 ?) layers deep - but that means that to modify just one sound parameter for any given program - say Cutoff Frequency - that you have to modify the Cutoff frequency for each filter in each of the 8 layers – that’s 8 filters to change just for one overall sound modification. It’s the same for every parameter – 8 sets of each parameter to modify!
Furthermore - the value range of each parameter is complete unintuitive - so it's near on impossible to even know what value to set the parameter to. I have many years experience in programming and I have never successfully edited even one Kurzweil sound.
Now - the Kurzweil range today:
- Essentially the same user interface as the K2500 of 18 years ago
- The keyboard action is a pale shadow of the K2500 - it's among the worst keyboard actions I have ever come across.
- The same synth architecture and synth engine as 18 years ago with quite minor or utterly “yesterdays era” updates to the samples.
- VAST -now 32 layers deep - great if you have years to build a single program but for any mortal an utterly impenetrable architecture - to affect the Cutoff frequency of a 32 layer program you have to modify the value of 32 filters
- The main ribbon controller is gone
- It is NOT build like a tank. I have looked very closely at their latest range in retail outlets and the current Kurzweils are chunky, tacky and cheap - I am convinced they would not survive any sort of gigging routine.
Overall, Kurzweil made a generation-defining workstation in the K2500 that is still quite respectable even today - but every bit of its class and physical chassis capabilities have been abandoned and squandered by Kurzweil - while the remaining bits are 20 years out of date.
I cannot comprehend how anyone in their right mind would even contemplate purchasing a Kurzweil today. I feel the company even verging on being a scam organisations in the electronic musical instrument industry, and really needs to look at itself long and hard.
There is absolutely no competition between any Kurzweil and the likes of the Korg Kronos, in my opinion.
Kevin. |
This editor makes it easy to work in the VAST and more.
http://soundtower.com/pc3/
The Kronos is good for Synth sounds and Piano sounds and thats about it
for now. Orchestra sounds don't even come close.
Harmonica sounds are not close. Just think if these are old why are
the better and Korg had all this time to make theirs better but they didn't.
Hmmmmm Is it possible is the question. |
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videorov
Full Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 1jordyzzz wrote: | Hey i think kronos kicks with its orchestral sounds (with expansion though )
https://korg.com/kronos
Click "sound libraries & shop", EXs11 legendary strings.... Listen to a demo called EXcalevation (for dynamics)... It's like the whole orchestra plays in front of you
For guitar sounds, it's covered on my yamaha PSR s910... Besides, i don't really use them that much.. |
I hear no horns in that demo. What no horns in a Orchestra.
The Film Score bottom of the page is a little better to show some horns.
Look at the price of Legendary Strings
For a machine that has so much memory and solid state drive you would think they could do better. |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I feel safe to say this especially on a Korg forum. I went workstation shopping years ago and the Kurz was on my list. Compared to what else was available THEN (2008) it was a joke and a bad one at that. Further, why anyone would subject themselves to that 1990's interface is beyond me!
The K series was cool in the 1990's. The problem is most of it is STILL from the 1990's. Here's to hoping they turn it around with the K3K! If they ever actually release it....
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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