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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: Did the Editor lose its way? |
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Warning: baseless speculation follows!
As we all know, the promised KRONOS editor was delivered much later than originally anticipated, frustrating many eager owners. When the editor was finally released, many were surprised to see that it was based on MidiQuest - a fine product in itself, but a surprising choice for an editor for a synth with the complexity of nearly 60,000 parameters.
But was it always intended to be this way?
MidiQuest uses the tried-and-trued technique of communicating with the KRONOS via Sysex over MIDI. MidiQuest itself is capable of using any MIDI port, not just the USB Class Compliant MIDI interface integrated into the KRONOS.
However, the startup scripts in the OS that originally shipped with the KRONOS have an interesting remark that makes me think that this may not have been the original plan.
The file /etc/OA.rc contains the following command:
| Code: |
iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 9875 --syn -j ACCEPT # Editor -> MIDID
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This is essentially opening a whole in the network firewall, with a comment saying "Editor -> MIDID".
MIDID appears to be a server process that dynamically links to libavahi-client.so.3. From Wikipedia:
| Quote: | | Avahi allows programs to publish and discover services and hosts running on a local network with no specific configuration. |
The KRONOS also seems to contain all the code and modules necessary to run a network connection over USB.
In other words, the originally shipping production software on the KRONOS looks as if it was specifically designed to receive MIDI-related data over a network connection (possibly over USB), This was not development code - this is code that shipped with the KRONOS at a point in time where Korg would have been expecting to release the editor in the very near future.
Did Korg originally intend to deploy something more bespoke, and after experiencing difficulties, engaged SoundQuest to build something using Sysex? I have very little certainty that this is the case, but it does seem an interesting thing to include in a production release. This is all idle speculation on my behalf.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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zzz
Full Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Just across from there
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I for one, would be willing to grit my teeth and go with the current editor, even if a modern design was forthcoming at a later date, but definite. I would love to edit on a large touchscreen, connected by wifi, or usb, using friendly pages with lots and lots of parameters on them, rather than eleventy-three sub pages to swop between.
In the grand scheme of things, it won't be long before everyone has a roll out graphene screen that could be as big as you could want. The next ten years will be interesting, but I fully intend to still have my Kronos. |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Did the Editor lose its way? |
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| SeedyLee wrote: |
Did Korg originally intend to deploy something more bespoke, and after experiencing difficulties, engaged SoundQuest to build something using Sysex? |
Do you think there is another way of communicating directly with a synth than Sysex? You sound like it's only SoundQuest that uses sysex.
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Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Did the Editor lose its way? |
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| Shakil wrote: | | SeedyLee wrote: |
Did Korg originally intend to deploy something more bespoke, and after experiencing difficulties, engaged SoundQuest to build something using Sysex? |
Do you think there is another way of communicating directly with a synth than Sysex? You sound like it's only SoundQuest that uses sysex. |
Of course there are other ways of communicating with a hardware synth, if you're not constrained to using MIDI. This is the whole point. The Kronos has the ability to do ethernet over usb for starters...
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, I thought there might have been more interest in this.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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Darmin De'flern
Full Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 221
Location: uk/malaysia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | | Hmm, I thought there might have been more interest in this. |
I was wondering if this has something to do with using the Kronos as a Virtual Instrument in a DAW? From the marketing wasnt the Kronos supposed to be capable of being controlled via usb from a daw?
_________________
Rolang VA7, Roland G-70 Ver3, quad core dell lappi with 6gb mem, DAW = Reaper, Amplitube 2,3. Scarlett Fockesrite 18-6, Mackie 1604 mixer, Washburn status 1000 headless bass, Roland 2.1 Monitors, Sunheizer Mic & Monitor headphones, Korg Kronos 88. |
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Dniss
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 1279
Location: Pale blue dot
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | | Hmm, I thought there might have been more interest in this. |
Very interesting indeed. But I'm not sure what else could be said. It's all speculation.
My guess is you're prolly right since the editor seems to be a tad under par of what most exepected. |
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Hooch
Junior Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 99
Location: Northern California USA
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Somebody will have to take the plunge and crack this thing.
The public ID is possibly the built in ethernet NIC?
They're all unique.
USB is ok but a 100 meg Ethernet port is another realm.
Atom processor. Linux.
Off the shelf components. With some OEM boards.
I feel like it's staring me in the face and expecting me to
not notice something.
John |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Hooch wrote: | Somebody will have to take the plunge and crack this thing.
The public ID is possibly the built in ethernet NIC?
They're all unique.
USB is ok but a 100 meg Ethernet port is another realm.
Atom processor. Linux.
Off the shelf components. With some OEM boards.
I feel like it's staring me in the face and expecting me to
not notice something.
John |
There is a custom kernel module for providing the Public ID - it may be based on MAC address, it may not. Either way, it may be possible to modify it to return a preset value.
The actual Kronos application appears to be encrypted. It's not a standard ELF.
A new framebuffer LKM could be created to provide the same software interface as the OMAP Framebuffer, and act as a translation layer for the VESA FB. Similarly, the UI functionality provided by the OMAP SoC would need to be emulated.
Even if this was achieved, you would need a usable Public ID and matching Auth key.
My main interest lies at the moment in achieving network connectivity with the KRONOS without modifying the hardware or opening the case. From this I hope to then be able to do things: identify any causes of stability issues by being able to access logs and/or the console/kernel messages, and being able to transfer user data via FTP.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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mathieumaes
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I'm interested, but this is really beyond my league to add anything useful!
Tell me if you need .NET or Web application support 
_________________
Old gig setup: Yamaha S90, Roland Fantom XR, Hammond XM-1, M-Audio Axiom 61
2011 gig setup: Korg Kronos 88 |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| mathieumaes wrote: | I'm interested, but this is really beyond my league to add anything useful!
Tell me if you need .NET or Web application support |
Thanks for the offer, mathieumaes!
Just for clarification, I have been determining these things just from the included OS restore CDs and the released OS updates - I have not opened or tampered with my beloved KRONOS in any way, and would discourage people from doing so unless they know exactly what they're doing and are willing to take the risks with their warranty.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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roblof
Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | | There is a custom kernel module for providing the Public ID - it may be based on MAC address, it may not. Either way, it may be possible to modify it to return a preset value. |
The public id seems to be stored in a special security chip. The same approach made by Line6. All extra sounds are probably also enabled by information stored in that chip.
| Quote: | | The actual Kronos application appears to be encrypted. It's not a standard ELF. |
Wouldn't it be possible to do a memory dump of a live system and extract the images from there since it must be decrypted at some point?
| Quote: | A new framebuffer LKM could be created to provide the same software interface as the OMAP Framebuffer, and act as a translation layer for the VESA FB. Similarly, the UI functionality provided by the OMAP SoC would need to be emulated.
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What would happen if vnc were to be used for video access, instead of using a physical port?
| Quote: | | My main interest lies at the moment in achieving network connectivity with the KRONOS without modifying the hardware or opening the case. From this I hope to then be able to do things: identify any causes of stability issues by being able to access logs and/or the console/kernel messages, and being able to transfer user data via FTP. |
Attaching a qwerty keyboard to the usb port and pressing ctrl-alt-del makes the kronor reboot  . Prior to this, a quick message is popping up on the lcd. This suggests that it should be possible to route /dev/console to the lcd? |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| roblof wrote: | | SeedyLee wrote: | | There is a custom kernel module for providing the Public ID - it may be based on MAC address, it may not. Either way, it may be possible to modify it to return a preset value. |
The public id seems to be stored in a special security chip. The same approach made by Line6. All extra sounds are probably also enabled by information stored in that chip.
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[/quote]
This seems quite possible - and indeed I hope and trust that Korg have taken all necessary steps to secure their IP. The last thing I want is for the KRONOS software to end up pirated and cracked 
| Quote: |
Wouldn't it be possible to do a memory dump of a live system and extract the images from there since it must be decrypted at some point?
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Absolutely, however this requires access to a running system, and I'm not willing to tinker with mine!
| Quote: | | Quote: | A new framebuffer LKM could be created to provide the same software interface as the OMAP Framebuffer, and act as a translation layer for the VESA FB. Similarly, the UI functionality provided by the OMAP SoC would need to be emulated.
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What would happen if vnc were to be used for video access, instead of using a physical port?
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The KRONOS application seems to depend on using the OMAP Framebuffer specifically. I'm not knowledgable enough about Kernel Framebuffers or the workings of VNC to be able to speculate, but it may be possible.
| Quote: |
Attaching a qwerty keyboard to the usb port and pressing ctrl-alt-del makes the kronor reboot . Prior to this, a quick message is popping up on the lcd. This suggests that it should be possible to route /dev/console to the lcd? |
I actually tried that last night (see the thread about the KRONOS restarting at a gig), but didn't get any console messages on the LCD display. As far as I can ascertain, there are two Framebuffer devices - the VGA one for console messages, and the OMAP one which is used exclusively by the Kronos application. Could be wrong here though.
If you were willing to post some video of this message, I'd love to see it! I would be very interested to know if the console was outputting to the OMAP Framebuffer.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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roblof
Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | | If you were willing to post some video of this message, I'd love to see it! I would be very interested to know if the console was outputting to the OMAP Framebuffer. |
The message is popping up really fast and it is possible to miss it at times.
I will open my kronos in a few days or so, to insert some more memory, so I can attach a vga and look at that output if at all possible.
If the keyboard is recognized (as it seems to be) then it might be possible to blindly do CLI-stuff. 
In that case a simple 'echo "hello world" > /dev/console' (or some other device) would tell us some...
Or perhaps boot into single-user mode with the help of the keyboard?
I wonder if the root account is pwd-protected or if there is a user account that is open since one need to login first. |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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The Kronos boots into single user mode by default, there is no need to enter a root password.
Note however that there are no virtual consoles spawned on boot. Whilst a USB keyboard is recognised, there is no shell running by default to enter anything into (except the BASH process used for the execution of the init scripts).
Would be great if you could do some investigation and post back 
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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