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sysex
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: sysex Reply with quote

F0 42 3g 50 4E xx F7
F0 -Identify sysex
42 -Korg manufacture's ID
3g -midi channel select (30 for me)
50 -Korg Triton Extreme ID
4E -puts it in change mode, 41 puts it in parameter change mode
xx -Mode select (04 sequence for me, 02 program play, 00 combination p
F7 -EOX (end of exclusive)

My string looks like this: F0 42 30 50 4E 04 F7
Now how do I select sequence # S017 ??????
The first line only switches the mode to Sequence.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated,
Monte Stultz
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xmlguy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3605

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it into program mode.
Start recording the midi that the TRex sends from a DAW sequencer
Put it into sequence mode
Select a sequence
Stop recording.
examine the midi.

You can use this technique to quickly learn how to control many different things because the midi sent when doing operations is usually exactly the same as what you need to send to it to repeat the same behavior.
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Sysex Reply with quote

I'm using an iPad to send control and mode change messages to my TE. The application from the app store is unrealBook by Aron Nelson. When I select a swong on the song list the words and music appear as page or pages of music, lyrics, chords, etc. however the app is designed to send midi sysex messages from a window which you have to enter a chain of sysex messages yourself. When you hit the test button in the midi window it results your input. I can change modes, Program, Combi, Sequence, etc.
And on Program and Combination I can change to the proper program or combination #. But in Sequence it only goes to #000 or if I put a Sequence # in first when I switch to Sequence mode it will be on whatever Sequence # that I first switched it to after loading my TE from media mode. My question is what chain of comands do I use to switch to Sequencer mode then to switch to the proper Sequence # in that mode. To switch to Sequence mode I enter:

F0 F42 30 50 4E 04 F7

Entering this chain switches the mode to sequence mode always at location S000: NEW SONG

What would I need to input into the chain of midi sysex messages in order for it to end up at location (for example) S017

Again any help would be greatly appreciated,
Monte
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Rlemmens2



Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi monte, did you figure IT out? I have THE Same problem, would be Nice of you have ŕ solution
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: sysex Reply with quote

I was told from Korg to use MidiOx and hit sequence mode change switch and it will give you the sysex messages needed to do thiis in Sequence mode (which it does) but when I do this I'm not sure which messages to send and what it is that I have to write down and send to accomplish this. Sequence has 16 channels; I never use more than 12 but look at all that would have to be sent to accomplish this. At least 13 maybe 14 lines of sysex, I think!
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rlemmens2



Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I preload THE songs including THE voices so I Guess I dont need 16 lines of sysex. Can you post what you get out of midiox or send IT to me by email? (Rlemmens2@hotmail.com)
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EdK
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Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Monte,

I saw a similar posting of yours in the MIDI-OX forum. Not sure if you check that forum also.

I'm doing something similar except I'm sending SYSEX to change the mode followed by the standard MIDI patch changes with a different midi patch changer hardware (don't have an iPad)

I have a Triton Studio which is very similar to the Extreme. An issue I ran into was that the commands are being sent so fast to the Studio that it wouldn't recognize the patch change command. With my software/hardware setup, the developer had to insert a 7ms delay between the SYSEX command the patch change command. I have discovered an alternative way of inserting the delay if you can't insert it into your software. Simply issue a couple 'dummy' MIDI commands that have nothing to do with your setup, then issue the commands necessary to select the proper sequence you want.

Give that a try and see if it works.

I'm actually looking at using an iPad to issue SYSEX and MIDI commands as an alternative to the software/hardware I'm currently using. Perhaps we can exchange some ideas along those lines in private communication?
I have some questions regarding using the iPad during a gig.

Thanks! Ed
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: sysex Reply with quote

Hi Ed,

Sorry it's taken so long to write back but I have been so busy with playing that I really have had more songs to work on than I'm capable of achieving the best results with.

Using iPad, Korg Triton Extreme, with unrealBook, Apple Application

This is what you need and I cannot write it all down in this text and I don't know if I can send it to you email cause I'm not sure if I can communicate with you through this forum without breaking the rules of the forum. Are we allowed to send emails through the forum?
I've been using this combination of devices in live performances and it works every time. As soon as I touch the next song in the unrealBook it automatically switches my programs, combinations or sequences to the proper settings in the proper locations on TE(Triton Extreme). It's flawless.
Please let me know if I can jot down my email address in this window?
Monte
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EdK
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Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Monte,

Thanks for replying. No problem with it taking a while.

Since we last communicated, I now have an iPad and I am using unRealbook for my charts and also send sysex and midi commands to my keyboards.

It took a while to set it up but well worth the effort. I upload my charts in PDF format into Dropbox then download them into the iPad from Dropbox.

I had to manually enter all the sysex/midi commands into the "user defined" area.

I've been communicating from time to time with the developer of unRealbook and learned that if a .mid file has the same name as the pdf file, then unRealbook will send those commands. However, the .mid file must be in type-0 format.

The 'user defined' area within unRealbook for entering midi commands is simply text (of course the midi commands must be in hex).

I asked the developer if he could enhance unRealbook to accept a text file with the midi commands instead of having to type in all the commands int he 'user defined' area. I also asked him if he could allow the text file to be named any name (i.e. not requiring the file to have the same name as the associated pdf file. For many songs that I play, I can use the same patches while others are unique for each song.

Good news- he is looking at adding that feature to unRealbook.

For now, here is an example of what I have in the 'user defined' area.

Ed

; Triton CC013
F0 42 30 50 4E 00 F7
B0 00 00
B0 20 02
C0 00 0D
; Triton PC001
F0 42 30 50 4E 02 F7
B0 00 00
B0 20 02
C0 00 01
; M1 P41
F0 42 31 19 4E 02 00 F7
C1 29
; M1 C03
F0 42 31 19 4E 00 00 F7
C1 03
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: sysex Reply with quote

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your reply and I think it's great that you figured it out. I had a hard time getting sequence modes to come up but finally figured that out. I use the sequence section to make more complex combinations by setting global on all 16 channels.

You can email me at stultzsweeties@comcast.net
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EdK
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Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Monte,

I already knew what SYSEX and MIDI commands I had to send. My main concern was if I could even send several pairs of commands from the iPad, what App supports doing it, and the speed and reliability.

I was considering using the sequencer at one time also (the approach you use) but I needed to be able to switch between back and forth between combi and prog modes within the same song by simply pressing the combi and prog buttons.

Would be nice if an App like unRealbook was available for an android tablet because they're much less expensive than an iPad but there are no 'robust' Apps like that (not even close) on android.

Thanks for your help.

Ed
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: sysex Reply with quote

If your playing a song live and it has several combination, program or sequence changes during that song, then you have to treat each change on a next page that you have to hit on the bottom right corner of the iPad.
Each page could look like this:

Nights In Whtie Satin (Orchestra) CE-010
Nights In White Satin (Flute) CE-011

When reach the part for the (flute solo) you hit the flute solo page and up comes that timbre or combination
When the solo ends hit page 3 that has CE-010 in the midi message window on the iPad

If this is what your tryin to do this is how I do it.
My time before switching combinations is about 1.5 seconds
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EdK
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Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Monte,

I see and understand what you're doing. Most of my charts on single page charts. To implement your technique, I would have to create multiple "songs" for each patch change I might need. Although you may be comfortable using this technique, I would feel uncomfortable implementing it mainly because when building setlists, I would worry about accidentally overlooking a "page" in the sequence.

What I do when I need multiple patches (beyond the initial 2 in one keyboard) for a particular song, I program the user 'EXB' banks (which can have up to 7 of them in each of Prog and Combi mode, and simply make a text notation in the chart which bank to use at the appropriate spots in the song.

For example (in Combi mode)

Bank A - CE010 Piano
Bank B - CE010 Piano with strings
Bank C - CE010 Organ
Bank D - CE010 Clav

If I start the song using the Organ, I issue the MIDI command for Bank C (CE010).. I don't need to issue additional MIDI commands for the other banks because I already set them up in the Triton.

Then throughout the song, all I have to do is tap the appropriate EXB bank button for the patch that I need.

Of course, this doesn't work on my M1 as it doesn't have banks. But I generally only use the M1 for solo lines (such as a Sax, etc) that I can play with one hand, while the other hand is on the Triton playing ensemble strings or whatever at the same time.

I play a classical organ in church which has 4 keyboards and pedals. It has 15 presets that control the entire organ as a whole and also 8 presets under each keyboard to change a 'patch' on that keyboard only. Each keyboard can also play several 'patches' at the same time (like Combi) and all the keyboards can be coupled together so that all patches for all keyboards can be played one keyboard.

Obviously, those kinds of instruments are designed completely differently than Synthesizers, etc.

If you're familiar with a Hammond B3 (or similar) organ, where you have about an octave of keys on the lower end of each keyboard to change the sound of the instrument as a whole. A classical church organ works more like a B3 in that sense but instead of using an octave of keys to change the sound, there are small circular buttons under each keyboard. I often wish Synthesizer manufactures would design their keyboards with these kinds of buttons. Programming those buttons is extremely easy. Just manually setup the sounds you want, press and hold a 'set' button then press an appropriate preset button. That button now remembers those sounds. Best of all, there's no MIDI commands to deal with.
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stultzsweeties
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: sysex Reply with quote

I believe it's possible to use the sequencer to send midi in various parts of the song your drummer would have to use a click but that would solve not even having to hit the EXB buttons, however I'm not sure how the EXB buttons work this may be something I would like to try.

So do you tap the EXB button to add that next piano with strings along with or does it not play CE010. So it acts as an insert by tapping each EXP button.
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EdK
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Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Monte,

I have the Triton Studio. I just checked the owners manual for the Extreme and it's preloaded with many more PROG and COMBI patches than the Studio.

The Bank keys labelled A-G on the Studio (for both PROG and COMBI mode are the only ones preloaded with patches. That row of buttons is labelled as INT (meaning internal preloaded patches).

The Studio has another row of Bank buttons (A-G) labelled as EXB which I believe refer to Expansion cards (banks) that cam be installed. (The equivalent row on the Extreme the buttons are called H-N.

On the Studio, the EXB row is empty (no preloaded patches) and is available for the user to save their own patches into without messing with the preloaded patches.

Examples:

On the Studio-

INT A B C D E F G
EXB A B C D E F G

On the extreme-

A B C D E F G
H I J K L M N
Each row of buttons in NOT preceded by INT and EXB


According to the Extreme manual, it looks like you only have Banks E and N available to save your own personal patches (without disturbing the preloaded ones).

On the Triton, I can use Banks A-G on the EXB row to save my personal patches.

I believe the Extreme is basically the equivalent of a Studio with all of expansion cards and MOSS installed. I don't have any expansion cards or MOSS on my Studio. .

Because I don't have any Expansion cards installed, the entire EXB row of banks is empty. What I normally do whenever I want to edit a patch, is I first copy reasonably close preloaded patch into an empty Bank on the EXB row. Then I tweak the sounds there. OR....as I described earlier, I'll copy several different preloaded patches from several different banks into empty EXB banks but change the patch number to be the same. For example-

Preloaded Stereo Piano patch is Combi Bank A patch #000
Preloaded Clav patch is Combi Bank D patch #122

I copy the Piano patch into EXB Combi Bank B and make it patch #30
I copy the Clav patch into EXB Combi Bank C and makt it patch #30

And so on if I want up to 7 different patches. They will all have the same patch number but saved in different banks (A-G). Then while I'm performing, all I have to do is tap the appropriate EXB Bank button for whatever sound I want.

My band performs live. No click track, no sequencers, no pre-recorded tracks, no computers. Only use iPads for lyrics and charts...and in my case send patch change commands from the iPad to my keyboards.

Because the Extreme comes preloaded with many more patches than the Studio, I don't think you'd be able to use my technique without disturbing the preloaded patches. .

Did all this make sense?
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