Korg Forums

alex_none · Joined: 03 Mar 2012 Posts: 23

Hi everybody!

I own a Kronos since February, I love its advanced architecture, those 9 sound engines, the two ssd on board (just added an OCZ Vertez), the 3GB of RAM and... Maybe I bought it because I am a tech geek more than a musician but ... I just tried a Kurzweil PC3K8 and I was astonished about the sound quality of this board!
With just 128MB of sample it sounds so great! The acoustic guitars, choirs and pads are wonderful and specially those guitars are way better than the physical modeled ones inside the Kronos. Kurzweil piano sounds as good as the Kronos one considering the huge amount of unlooped samples of my K61 and I could go on with reeds, orchestral sounds...
So I start to wonder: where's all this superiority of the Kronos? Did I buy it because I need the latest technology or because I need a superior sound? In the end is all just about the sound!
I don't have so much time to unleash the programming power of the Korg machine and I've been told V.A.S.T. is even deeper and harder to manage but if I just scratch the surface maybe a PC3K sound better since the beginning.
The Kronos sounds (at least all those factory ones and the libraries around) start to bore me, they are way too synthetic, too thin... I would like to buy some really good acoustic sounds (specially guitars) but it seems that all the production out there is for synth sounds and esoteric karma enabled stuff.
I've the feeling that the best for Kronos is yet to come but I want some more normal usable board right now.
Should I sell my beloved K61 for a PC3k? Are there some sound libraries around that can be purchased to fill this gap I start to feel?
Sorry for the long post but I would like to get some more user opinion before taking a decision.
I want to be faithful to KORG but I am on a decision-making crisis right now.

Thank you

Alex

nowtime · Full Member Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 216

The pads on the Kronos are GREAT. If you want guitars, go buy something else. It is common knowledge that this is Kronos' weakest point.

BillW · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject:

The PC3K has only 64MB of samples in ROM.
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Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4; Casio Privia PX-350m; Macbook Pro

Rigel · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject:

Are you sure you tested both machines under the same conditions and simultaneously?

I don't want to lecture about acoustics here, however, it is possible that even two Kronos's with say 73 and 88 keys in a music shop, which are placed on shelves side by side and are connected to the same mixer and speakers will sound different to your ears, because you stand a few feet apart when you try them individually, and those few feet make the difference! Trying different musical instruments in different environments and different times makes a healthy comparison impossible. You have to use the same audio equipment in the same room to arrive to a conclusion.

To me, since the K250, the Kurzweil VAST synths are excellent instruments. But Kronos is not a thin sounding machine, either.

Tell you what, really, my friend's Kronos sounds like my son's bicycle horn..! Got it?

Don't sell your K. Find out the weak link in your audio setup, or check the acoustic conditioning of your room.
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Korg KronosX73, Kurzweil PC3K6, Roland V-Synth GT, Kawai K5000S, Waldorf Blofeld, Novation Ultranova, Behringer Neutron, Yamaha HS80M, Boss Micro BR80, Zoom H6, Sony PCM D100, Tascam DP32SD, Mackie 1202VLZ4, Zoom MS-70CDR, Rode NT1, Sony MDR 7506.

Francois · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject:

Follow your guts, always ! If the Kronos sounds thin to your ears, then buy whatever machine sounds fat.

I don't know how you manage to hear it "thin", as I certainly don't, but I'm a great believer in trusting your gut feeling when it comes to buying synth, specially after trying one for myself.
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Kronoscopie, tout sur le Kronos en français

http://www.kronoscopie.fr

Low Class · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject:

I own both the Kronos 88 and the PC3K8. I totally agree with what you are hearing. The Kurz sounds better.
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Korg Kronos 61
Casio PX-5S
MixCraft 6 Pro Studio

Zeroesque · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:36 pm Post subject:

Alex, I sold the PC3x to make room for the Kronos. I pretty much have the opposite opinion of you, but hey, we don't all have to hear the same things! I think you need to A/B these instruments in a good environment to make a decision (or at least use headphones in the store), but then you should definitely play what feels best to you. I've had several VAST synths over the years and have no issue programming them, for what it's worth (that didn't affect my decision).

I must say, the pianos...not even close. I would've probably stuck with the Kurz if the piano was anywhere near as good as the Kronos German grand. Kurzweil does have some beautifully produced orchestral patches, though. On average, they are simply a notch above most orchestral patches from any other synth outside of sample libraries.
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Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

To call the Kronos sound "thin" is about the most ridiculous statement which I have heard in a long time. The Kornos sound engine is the most powerful and present sound engine of all workstations in my ears. It has some weaknesses due to bad quality samples and programs in the guitar area, but that's about the only only weak spot.

The Kurz Sounds have been very(!) well programmed based on small available material at their time, but they are still based on tiny, looped samples, which reflect 80s/90s standards and possibilities. They have a really dull, lifeless lofi sound compared with the Kronos in most sound areas. The Kurz offers the most outdated set of sounds of all available workstations, and survives only due to the careful programming of these sounds at the time of their development.

In my ears the Kronos sound is at least two generations ahead in areas like piano, epiano, all synth sounds and FM sounds, and even concerning many older HD-1 sounds are way better than what you find on a Kurz.

A Kurz with it's 80s/90s technology and sound character is no match at all for a Kronos, and only comparable in the very few areas where the Kronos has weak samples and programs.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

Low Class · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:44 am Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

The Kurz does not sound full or fat, it rather sounds dull due to missing high range and too much mid range. If that is your perception of "fat", it is not mine.

I have compared both side by side as well, and in my ears the Kurz overall sounds absolutely poor and flat compared with the complete sound range and the vivid clarity of the sound material availablke in the Kronos.

I would never use a Kurz while having access to a Kronos, with extremely few exceptions. I really wonder what you are hearing, and how you interpret what you hear.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

NuSkoolTone · Approved Merchant Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 1069

I've got to agree with Jim on this one.

I say check the cables on your Kronos, or perhaps you just need an overall EQ to suit your taste.

Try this: Go into master mode and select the EQ. Boost around 250 (or 125/500) and then play some different sounds. As that will keep the EQ on as you change sounds. Then compare to the Kurz. Good chance somewhere in the EQ is the "Fat" you're looking for. Then, once you have the "Fat: you'll notice the clarity and detail that no eq in the world is going to coax from the Kurz!

I mean hey FWIW, when I went shopping years ago I WANTED to like the Kurz, but the MotifXS made THAT sound thin and in the stone age. The Kronos IMO is the next step up from that. Don't get me wrong I still love my Motif for what it is, and the Korg is it's own sound. Though "thin" isn't what I'd call it. Try the EQ Wink

At least to see if that gets you in the right direction for what you're looking for.
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Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth

jeremykeys · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:19 am Post subject:

With regards to the thick/thin argument, a good friend of mine refuses to play Fender Stratocaster guitars because he says they all sound thin to him. So of course he heads to the Gibson side of the fence. Myself, I play both since I hear the difference and I for one do not think a Stratocaster sounds thin. It certainly has more highs than say, a Les Paul which helps it cut better through the mix, but I don't think that because a Gibson has more lower mids that makes it better. It's all about what you yourself prefer. I have a Kronos because I wanted and use most of the myriad functions and features. The German Grand sounds more like a true grand piano to me than any other synth out there.
Granted the guitar sounds are weak. Get a real guitar and play it. I think it's going to be a long time before a keyboard can truly do a guitar sound properly. There are just far to many variables in the guitars sonic repertoire to cover even with a ton of controllers at your fingers.

My advice. Do what Francois says. Follow your gut!
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If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

djcactus · Senior Member Joined: 03 Dec 2011 Posts: 375

i only had the kronos for a little while but i always thought it sounded pretty full.

I havnt gotten my hands on the kurz yet but i can only imagine that opinions will vary from person to person (as it should be). Also the way people utilize and how effective they are with the hardware could also be a factor. If a system doesnt click with someone they wont be making great music where the architecture of the other may function "symbiotically" with that person.

just like every other "this gear vs this gear" thread im going to put my chips on preference.
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2xds-10, ds10+, m01

gjvti · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:49 am Post subject:

Kronos thin? Shocked

maybe it sounds too precise and detailed for you - but that is something different than thin and on Kronos you can certainly adjust the sound as you wish if you need duller/fatter sound

cello · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:20 am Post subject:

Gosh - too subjective!

It's like attraction between the sexes - friends may think that your partner is too 'fat' or too 'thin' but to you, (s)he is perfect Wink

It's what you think that counts; so I'm with Francois - go with what you feel is right and don't look back...
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Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5,