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losthighway76
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Austria
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 Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: 2 Synth usage, MIDI volume bug? |
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Hi All!
I just ran into a problem using my Korg Kronos and my Access Virus TI2.
My setup looks like this:
KK (Korg Kronos) MIDI Out -> VTI2 (Virus TI2) MIDI IN
VTI2 Audio Left Out -> KK Audio Left In
VTI2 Audio Right Out -> KK Audio Right In
KK: General MIDI Channel 1 (sends master tempo)
VTI2: General MIDI Channel 16 (Virus runs in MULTI Mode)
When I have a combi and I want to use both synths, I select a track and set it to EX2 and the MULTI preset number for the program. So when I change to this combi on my KK my VTI2 automatically switches to the needed preset ...
...but:
The volume I set for this external channel doesn't affect the volume of the VTI2 when switching to the combi. I need to select the volume slider and use it one time (e.g. inrement/decrement 1 step up or down). Then the volume is set as shown on the volume slider.
Do I miss some configuration here or is this a bug?
(I'm running the new OS 2.0.2 but it also happened with 1.6 and 1.5.)
Thanks in advance for your help! |
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.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: 2 Synth usage, MIDI volume bug? |
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| losthighway76 wrote: |
When I have a combi and I want to use both synths, I select a track and set it to EX2 and the MULTI preset number for the program. So when I change to this combi on my KK my VTI2 automatically switches to the needed preset ...
...but:
The volume I set for this external channel doesn't affect the volume of the VTI2 when switching to the combi. I need to select the volume slider and use it one time (e.g. inrement/decrement 1 step up or down). Then the volume is set as shown on the volume slider.
Do I miss some configuration here or is this a bug? |
That' somewhat normal - sadly. It has to do with the way MIDI works, and I wouldn't call it a bug, but it's a limited ability of the Kronos to serve as a masterkey in a multi-instrument setup.
When a combi is selected, all EX channels will send their PrgCh messages, of course. They normally do not send the stored values of all available midi-CCs, however.
E.g. with my dedicated master keyboard with a more or less sophisticated midi controller, I have the choice, which midi CCs are sent when selecting a new patch. Sending all possible CC values for 16 channels would caus a lot of midi bulk data and is not something you would really want.
Of course, it would be nice to send at least a small set of standard CCs along with a patch change, but one has to keep in mind that Volume and Bank/Program are different midi messages.
I am not sure if the Kronos can be configured to send these messages on the selection of a combi. I'm quite sure that in a song instead of a combi, it would.
As a workaround for a live setup, I would recommend that you either
a) save the desired volume in your patch on the TI, or
b) set all the TI patches to a standard value and manage the volume on the audio path back into the Kronos (audio in tab). |
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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No, that's not right - all other Korg workstations do send their mixer settings from a combi or song. I've used this feature extensively in the past..
Haven't had a chance to check it with the Kronos though. Is it perhaps because you are using EXT2 rather than EXT?
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
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Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| X-Trade wrote: | | No, that's not right - all other Korg workstations do send their mixer settings from a combi or song. I've used this feature extensively in the past.. |
Are you sure that all the mixer data is sent as standard midi messages? I did try just this minute and see some bulk data in SysEx, when I change a combi. But there is only little data sent on the "normal" midi protocol.
The Virus will not be able to read Korg SysEx, I'm afraid.
On the other hand, the good news is that in my test setup, the Kronos does indeed send at least
- PrgCh
- Volume
- Foot Controller CC
So, in principle, it should work.
| Quote: |
Haven't had a chance to check it with the Kronos though. Is it perhaps because you are using EXT2 rather than EXT? |
According to my test, it's the same way in both EX2 / EXT.
Maybe the midi data is coming "too fast" for the virus (e.g. if it needs some time for the patch change and is "deaf" to midi for that very moment)?
Are you sending MIDI over the old fashioned 5-pin connectors or via USB? The latter might be a bit fast sometimes. |
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losthighway76
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hello!
Thanks both of you for your fast replies 
| Quote: |
Maybe the midi data is coming "too fast" for the virus (e.g. if it needs some time for the patch change and is "deaf" to midi for that very moment)?
Are you sending MIDI over the old fashioned 5-pin connectors or via USB? The latter might be a bit fast sometimes. |
Today I tried the following:
I changed the Virus to the MULTI Program which is used by the Combi before switching to the Combi on the Kronos, so the Virus doesn't need to change anything, but even then the volume is set to 127 instead of 66 which is used on the EX2 track. So I guess we can say that it has nothing to do with the Virus being too slow to recognize the sent Krons volume data.
Don't know if thats good or bad 
Can somebody with a 2Synth setup confirm that the volume set for the EX2 track is sent correctly to the 2nd synth when selecting a Kronos Combi?
(At the moment I set the volume on the Virus and/or via the Audio In fader on the Kronos.) |
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.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| losthighway76 wrote: |
I changed the Virus to the MULTI Program which is used by the Combi before switching to the Combi on the Kronos, so the Virus doesn't need to change anything, but even then the volume is set to 127 instead of 66 which is used on the EX2 track. So I guess we can say that it has nothing to do with the Virus being too slow to recognize the sent Krons volume data.
Don't know if thats good or bad
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Well, that's at least some more info to track down the problem. Unfortunately, this doesn't not necesserily mean that the Virus doesn't process the midi data - even if it's already in the desired patch.
| Quote: |
Can somebody with a 2Synth setup confirm that the volume set for the EX2 track is sent correctly to the 2nd synth when selecting a Kronos Combi?
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If the correct data is SENT - that's something you can easily check yourself (and that seems to be the only feasible way - my Kronos sends all midi data correctly - but it doesn't help you...). Use the Kronos editor or the "midi swiss army knife" MIDI-OX to monitor the outgoing midi data. If everything is right with the sent data, it must be something wrong with the virus.
Another check would be to send a midi patch change message followed by a midi volume message over a fast midi line, with a variable delay between both messages, But I'm not aware of any tool to do this right now.
Could you post a PCG with the malfunctioning combi? Maybe there is some other stuff going wrong - maybe KARMA or another timbre on the same channel.
<-- the last thing (coming to my mind the very minute) is something you should check. Do you (inadvertedly) have other combi parts/tracks sending on the same channel? Even if they are muted or set to INT, this may interfere with your intended result... Especially if the timbre has a higher number (more right-hand in the mixer), it's midi messages will be sent AFTER the one you originally wanted to use...
Jens |
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losthighway76
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hello again,
today I had time to test the MIDI data sent from the Kronos and received by the Virus.
I found out the following:
- Kronos sends the correct MIDI volume to the Virus. (CC 7)
- the Virus receives the volume message from the Kronos since I checked the MIDI Trough from the Virus where I also received the MIDI volume CC message.
I used the MIDI monitor app for the iPad to check this. There I saw that after changing the Volume to 66 (the configured volume for the Virus track) the slider instantly jumps back to 127. Don't know if thats just an app behaviour or if that means that the virus sets the volume to 66 for a short time and then back to 127.
Any ideas what to do next?
Maybe tomorrow I will use an init patch wihtout KARMA etc. so that I can make sure nothing else messes with the data. |
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.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| losthighway76 wrote: |
I used the MIDI monitor app for the iPad to check this. There I saw that after changing the Volume to 66 (the configured volume for the Virus track) the slider instantly jumps back to 127. Don't know if thats just an app behaviour or if that means that the virus sets the volume to 66 for a short time and then back to 127.
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Try to leave the virus out of the chain at first and just monitor the sent data from the Kronos. You should make sure that the second message which sets the volume back to 127 does not come from Kronos.
IF it is sent by the K, take a look at the timbre volumes using the Control Surface / "Timbre" tab. Maybe the physical sliders 1-8 are causing this, if in timbre mode - this should be reflected on the on-screen mixer...
Or do you have a foot controller set up to send midi volume, perhaps?
If everything is right with the data sent, it must be the virus itself. In this case, unfortunately, I can't help you... |
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