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Easy way to upgrade your Kronos piano!
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mihmix



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Easy way to upgrade your Kronos piano! Reply with quote

Hi all!!!
If you want to upgrade your Kronos piano and make it sound more natural just try use the scale (see below) instead of Equal Temperament scale. Usually this scale is used for accoustic pianos. It sounds realy amazing especially in high register! I can not play K piano in Equal scale any more! Very Happy Hope you'll like it!

First select "User All Notes Scale" in Common page in Scale section.
And then go to Global->Controllers/Scale->User Scales and change settings for each of notes in User All Notes Scale.

This is settings for Extended Equal Temperament scale:

A0_____ -14
A#0____ -14
B0_____ -13
C1_____ -12
C#1____ -12
D1_____ -11
D#1____ -11
E1_____ -10
F1_____ -10
F#1____ -9
G1_____ -8
G#1____ -7
A1_____ -6
A#1____ -5
B1_____ -4
C2_____ -3
C#2____ -2
D2_____ -2
D#2____ -2
E2_____ -1
F2_____ -1
F#2____ -1
G2_____ 0
G#2____ 0
A2_____ 0
A#2____ 0
B2_____ 1
C3_____ 1
C#3____ 1
D3_____ 1
D#3____ 1
E3_____ 2
F3_____ 2
F#3____ 2
G3_____ 2
G#3____ 2
A3_____ 3
A#3____ 3
B3_____ 3
C4_____ 3
C#4____ 3
D4_____ 3
D#4____ 4
E4_____ 4
F4_____ 4
F#4____ 4
G4_____ 4
G#4____ 4
A4_____ 4
A#4____ 5
B4_____ 5
C5_____ 5
C#5____ 6
D5_____ 6
D#5____ 6
E5_____ 6
F5_____ 7
F#5____ 7
G5_____ 7
G#5____ 7
A5_____ 7
A#5____ 8
B5_____ 8
C6_____ 8
C#6____ 9
D6_____ 9
D#6____ 10
E6_____ 10
F6_____ 11
F#6____ 12
G6_____ 13
G#6____ 14
A6_____ 15
A#6____ 16
B6_____ 18
C7_____ 20
C#7____ 22
D7_____ 24
D#7____ 26
E7_____ 28
F7_____ 30
F#7____ 33
G7_____ 36
G#7____ 39
A7_____ 42
A#7____ 45
B7_____ 49
C8_____ 53
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SanderXpander
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, I think if you select the different piano "models" within the SGX1 engine, you'll find some of them already have those tunings.
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mihmix



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure no. There is only Stretch scale built in Kronos that is similar to Extended Equal Temperament scale. But it is not like this. Try to copy Stretch scale to the user scale to see its settings.
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macroenie
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your post interested me so I dug a little deeper.
Still have to read it once, twice maybe even three times over because it is quite technical but still wanted to share what I found.

http://www.precisionstrobe.com/apps/pianotemp/temper.html


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.Jens
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Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you found looks like the usual stretched tuning found on the most (grand) pianos. I am not quite sure in what particular sense the scale suggested by mihmix differs from the usual stretched tuning.

If you compare the curves of both tunings, stretched and "extened" - they are very similar, the extended being a bit steeper in the higher registers. The reason to use one or the other is the same: a better match of the harmonics, which are not mathematically pure on a real string instrument due to the stiffness of the strings.

But I disagree that the extended tuning is something completely different or new - it's just a quantitative difference in how exactly the curves are formed. And this brings me to the crucial point: there is no single streched / extended tuning. It has to match the actual instrument, as string lengths and gauges differ and create slightly different harmonic spectra on each piano (model).

I am quite faithful that the "stretched" pianos in SGX1 have been tuned carefully before sampling, and that the applied stretching has been chosen not by certain numbers or cent-intervals (no piano tuner does it that way) but by careful listening.

Assuming this, I'd say the "best" stretched tuning to use with the SGX instruments will be the one already contained in the samples, as it is not an artificial bending of the tuning curve, but a property of the actual sampled instrument.

However, it is always possible that a certain scaling matches the taste of one person (e.g. mihmix) better than another - it's a matter of taste, because tuning (especially on a piano) is always a compromise between different targets. For example, a strongly stretched tuning might sound perfect in solo, but it will create an audible detuning between the piano and other instruments in a band or orchestra, which don't need stretching, in the very high and low registers...
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macroenie
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, very helpfull.

Yes, I agree, it is a subjective subject.
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.Jens
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun intended? Very Happy
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macroenie
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
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Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

correctamundo Wink
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mihmix wrote:
I'm sure no. There is only Stretch scale built in Kronos that is similar to Extended Equal Temperament scale. But it is not like this. Try to copy Stretch scale to the user scale to see its settings.


Actually, the piano types with an "s" at the end use the piano's *actual* stretch tuning, accurately reflecting the tuning of the real piano as adjusted by the piano technician, to match its particular overtones. Simply select these piano types and set the scale to Equal Tempered.
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ed_f
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Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 1063
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
Actually, the piano types with an "s" at the end use the piano's *actual* stretch tuning, accurately reflecting the tuning of the real piano as adjusted by the piano technician, to match its particular overtones. Simply select these piano types and set the scale to Equal Tempered.


Great info Dan thanks!
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mihmix



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:

Actually, the piano types with an "s" at the end use the piano's *actual* stretch tuning, accurately reflecting the tuning of the real piano as adjusted by the piano technician, to match its particular overtones. Simply select these piano types and set the scale to Equal Tempered.

I did not know that. Thank you!
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ChrisP
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Posts: 94
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you please point us to a sample Program?

Thanks
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.Jens
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, already the A-000 Kronos German Grand should use the stretched tuning. If not, go to the SGX-1 settings and select one of the "s" versions from "piano type".
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ChrisP
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, thanks!
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1jordyzzz
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Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 688
Location: Indonesia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:

Actually, the piano types with an "s" at the end use the piano's *actual* stretch tuning, accurately reflecting the tuning of the real piano as adjusted by the piano technician, to match its particular overtones. Simply select these piano types and set the scale to Equal Tempered.


Great info!! i always feel when i tried japanese, that japanese dark "s" sounds more ambient, but didn't know what "s" means.. thanks Very Happy
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