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roblabs

I'm wondering if the Volcas will be as hissy as the monotron/tribes and ms20 mini...as long as they aint, I'll be picking up a BASS soon...

Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

50/50 chance. I read that Korg is using a modified version of the MS-20 filter for it.

Honestly, the whole hiss thing should be anything to worry about, it's just how the original MS-20 sounds. Here's a thread with several people posting sound clips of their original MS-20s, all with the same hissy characteristic.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/501704-question-korg-ms20-owners.html

DrHoo · Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:58 pm Post subject:

I never knew the ms20 had a hissy filter. As i understand it the hiss on the ms20 comes from the oscillators.(Unless i'm mistaken)
The filter is smoother than a baby's rear end !

Also ,there is more than one type of filter involved across the three volca's. The bass vers has a filter from the minikorg 700 s (First korg synth) & i think that the keys model has tho ms20 filter but a simplified version of it (I think)...As you said, a modified vers'.

These things should be around pretty soon. Rolling Eyes

Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

There are two versions of the original MS-20 and the difference between the two are the filters. The first filter used was called the KORG35 and it is indeed hissy and has an extremely aggressive sound. You can pretty much make it sound like an overdrive pedal with the right settings. This unit was complained about and then recalled, causing Korg to tweak the filter and release a second version. The second version, as you said, is much smoother sounding and not as discordant. The first version with the more noisy and aggressive filter became the one that was more sought after and higher priced amongst collectors, so Korg choose to use that filter with the Monotribe, Monotron, MS-20 Mini and now with the Volca Bass. From what I read, the Volca Bass limits the amount of resonance you can add, so it will be less extreme.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin

DrHoo · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:30 am Post subject:

Yeah that's what i heard too, less res in the filter. Maybe they're playing safe if they are aiming it at beginners ,don't want to blow up everyones tweeters !

About that korg 35 filter though, i have the ms20m & as far as i can tell the hissy noise (that is of much discussion) comes from either the amp or the oscillators.
Oscillators would make sense because the noise is apparent pre-filter.
I havn't noticed any unwanted sound from filtering. It would in theory be the opposite where you can filter out a proportion of the noise but honestly, i'm sure it comes from the sound source rather than the filter. When i say 'sure' i mean i'm convinced for now.
There's even a view that says if you replace all of the electrolytic capacitors, that should get rid of it ! Hmmm, it's not that bad. Don't quote me on that as being the source of that inf though . I just read it in another forum thread. Rolling Eyes

At risk of flying off the topic here..Doh !

roblabs · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:32 pm Post subject:

I guess we just need to wait and see. Honestly, though, I was really disappointed with the monotron series. My mom was sweet enough to buy me a monotron for xmas when it was released, but ive rarely used it because of the extreme amounts of hiss.

SeedyLee · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:34 am Post subject:

You know it's funny: people long for the analogue sound of a past era, and when companies release such things there's complaints about hiss and noise and tuning instability and the inability to save presents - all the reasons that digital synths became so popular in the first place!
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

Bald Eagle · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:56 am Post subject:

You can have analog without some of the problems of the past. I just got a Sub Phatty. It's signal path is 100 percent analog, the oscillators are very stable, it has presets and is not noisy or hissy unless you want it to be.

I think Korg has made a mistake by not upgrading the technology used in their analog products. Bringing the failings of the past into the present may be nostalgic but that will wear thin quickly.

SeedyLee · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:08 am Post subject:

Good points - it certainly is possible to create very low noise analog equipment as is the case with the Moog. But rightly or wrongly, nostalgia does play a big part I think in the analgg resurgence, and changing the design to imporve one aspect may have a detrimental effect on the perceived character.

I guess my point is that there was a very good reason that digital synths became so popular in the first place, and whilst surface mount technology has allowed a great improvement in reliability, cost and size of analogue equipment, many of the original issues with analog still remain.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

roblabs · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:03 am Post subject:

I don't care about presets, though they do make life easier.
I don't mind tuning instability and chaos; it makes life more interesting.
But I do care about hiss. I got a minibrute and its as silent as a lamb.

A little hiss is ok. But what I heard on the monotron was just unacceptable. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope its a decent step up.

Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

Bald Eagle · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:13 am Post subject:

Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

Well, they do mention this on their website:

"One of the greatest characteristics of the MS-20 was its powerful filters... Maximizing the resonance would cause the filter to self-oscillate like an oscillator, producing a distinctive and dramatic tonal change that was acclaimed as inimitable... The filter circuit was changed mid-way through the production lifecycle of the MS-20; the MS-20 mini uses the earlier filter, which was felt to be superior due to its more radical sound."

So right away, you know are are going to get something different sounding compared to most other synthesizers. Expecting them to mention specifically that it will be a little hissy is just being nit picky because you can only really hear it with headphones or through an amplifier cranked up to about ten (which ironically generates hiss on it's own). I've used it on a few recordings already and there's been no problems with it whatsoever.

I'm sorry, but you can't pass the onto blame Korg for not liking it because it's a matter of taste. It's a replicated instrument and there's already enough information and sound examples out there to for both the original and Mini version to figure out if it's the right thing for you or not. If you don't like the MS-20, just don't get one.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin

Bald Eagle · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject:

I'm still on the fence with the MS20 and the Volka's. I will likely get an MS20 at some point to add to my collection but I know for the most part what to expect. But there are many others that don't realize what they are getting into.

DrHoo · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback about the root of the hiss. For me though, wherever it comes from is no bother at all.
When i got mine i didn't even try & hear it & yes ,it definitely is part of the charater. Whatever !

I have said this before to differentiate between noise & issue....There's the word 'Noise' or 'Hiss' and then there's the word 'Issue'.

I have the noise (Although i don't normally hear it) but i don't have the issue ! Two different things & when you read the term 'NOISE ISSUE' anywhere regarding this synth, try & remember that it is a term given by someone outside of Korg & that it is not actaully an issue at all. I guess you (Anyone) either want an ms20 with all of it character or you don't ! Wink

...EDIT...Ha, just remembered, this in the VOLCA thread ! Apologies for fueling the off topic trend.