Korg Forums

[Bertotti]

I do not understand this phrase in a mac tutorial I was watching.
"Logic records your midi performance, not the midi arpeggiated (effected) notes."

How can you record one without the other? Apparently I do not fully understand these terms, or at least that is what I think the problem is. Any insight is appreciated.

[Diego5150]

I saw that tutorial, what it is saying is the arpeggiator on this track is like an added effect and would not be recorded to the sequencer like an audio recording would.

[Diego5150]

What I should have said is only the midi data is recorded, note on / off duration of the note, The arpeggiation does not "record" thus will not play back when using midi unlike if it was recorded as audio.

Hope that helps.

[Bertotti]

I imagine I will have to try it to fully understand. I hear what is being said it just isn't sinking in. I don't understand midi much and don't fully get why we would record with it. Audio makes sense, if I had it played it is recorded. Midi isn't audio it is data and why would I record the data instead of just having a master with all the audio the way I want it. I assume it is for the ease of manipulation of effects and other things bit having never used it, yet, I haven't grasped it.

[X-Trade]

What it is saying, is that the Arpeggiator is a transformation applied to the MIDI after it has passed through the recording stage.

So when you hit play, it is playing back the notes you played IN to the arpeggiator. If the arpeggiator is still loaded in to the track then it will pass on to that and you will still hear arpeggiated notes. But if you go in to the Piano Roll Vies for example on that MIDI clip, you will see the notes you played in on the keyboard, not the notes that the arpeggiator produced.

So much in the same way that you record MIDI notes that get passed on to a VST - NOT recording the resulting audio. In this case you are recording the MIDI notes that get passed on to the Arpeggiator that get passed on to a VST. Rather than recording the notes that came out of the arpeggiator or recording the audio that came out of the VST.

In terms of data flow, you can think of it like this:

Keyboard > MIDI Track > Arpeggiator > Virtual Instrument (or out to external hardware)

Where 'MIDI Track' is where the recording and playback of MIDI notes occur.


Note I say 'VST' but obviously mac uses AU's. It's just a common slip-up because these historically 'VST' has always been considered synonymous with 'Virtual Instrument'
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[X-Trade]

By the way, we record MIDI because it allows us to:
- Correct mistakes after recording
- Add additional notes and overdub controller automation (on the synth instrument itself) to add more motion and complexity to the recording
- Considerably or even completely change the sound by altering settings or choosing a different synth patch

As such, the standard configuration for recording Virtual Instruments in a DAW is by recording the MIDI. The notes get synthesised by the virtual instrument every time because the MIDI Track is 'playing' the instrument the same way you did when you record it.

It just allows a lot more flexibility. Of course generating all that audio synthesis every time you hit play can use up CPU. So a lot of DAWs now allow you to 'freeze' a virtual instrument track which makes a temporary audio track to replace it in the background. You can switch it off later if you want to make changes and it will be swapped back with the MIDI/Instrument track.

Of course working with external instruments is a bit different and you have to make the audio recording yourself.

The way I tend to work these days is to record MIDI and Audio simultaneously. I stick with the Audio recording but having the MIDI track muted at the bottom of my project has been a life saver several times when I found later that a recording had clipped slightly or the sound just totally didn't fit in with my mix.
(Or rather, those projects before I started doing this have these problems and are now considered a lost cause because it's impossible to re-capture the spontaneity of the original first take)

It's also handy if you improvise a lot at the recording stage and don't know what exactly you played. You can often even turn the MIDI track into sheet music.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[Bertotti]

Ah just thinking of it as re or don't what you played helps a lot, for exme if I have this correct if I had a midi guitar of course, it would record the note I played and not the audio and I assume it captures inflections based on the resolution and parameters it records.

Is it common to record the notes before the arpegiator? I can see why, with the ability to edit that this would be good. How about you guys that play live? Do you use a lot of midi for backing and such? Or do you prefer audio?

Thanks you guys you have helped me a lot!

[X-Trade]

Yeah, you've got it right.


I flatten my backing tracks into mostly audio loops that I launch in Ableton.

I only use MIDI if it's controlling an external synth with some complicated line that I'm going to be tweaking on the knobs too. Otherwise with MIDI for something that you don't actually need control over it's just more to go wrong.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[Bertotti]

Do you have a best practices for deciding when or how to use midi or not? Thanks!


Out of curiosity is somehing like my maschine a actually recording midi data, and not audio when laying down beats and layering them? I never really thought of how it was doing it before.

[Bertotti]

I think I saw an introduction to midi tutorial on Mac Pro videos. I will have to switch gears and watch it now as it is something I think I need to learn now! I won't be going for Logic Pro x until I get a thunderbolt ssd. I want all my musical items on a separate drive! I have had so many HE fail on me I just don't trust them anymore. Lost 3 in a computer in less then 6 months and it was a computer that never was moved! Last 10 years I have lost 7 HD. Sorry got side tracked midi seems quite useful if you know how to use it!


Edited to add I started the midi tutorials. very basic so far but that is a good thing.

[Diego5150]

Bertotti,

I thought the same way about getting an ssd drive but was talked out of it because the 7200 RPM drives which are very affordable are very reliable.
have (2) 1 for my Logic projects and 1 for my Komplete sound files and misc. audio / videos. Very pleased with them both.

[SanderXpander]

Maschine is recording only midi whenever you're using the sequencer or building patterns. It's a sampler though so when you're sampling, you're recording audio. You can also export audio files/loops from Maschine, in this case it does a quick playback of the recorded pattern with the samples you selected, and creates an audio file for you.

[Bertotti]

SanderXpander, Got it! After x-trades explanation I was assuming that but I hate to assume! Thanks for clearing it up!

Diego5150 I if that is the case is it be ause they are using better components because all my failures have invariably been mechanical. I do have a couple external hds of the three one has failed. My other ulterior motive for ssd is to take better advantage of my thunderbolt capabilities. My Mac book pro is so much more efficient with ssd then my older one with hard drive but of course the quad core helps and so does 16 gig of memory.

[Diego5150]

I agree with reliability and speed of the ssd but Glyph has a 2 year warranty for data recovery retrieval upon failure. And the the ssd's can get costly. That is why I went with the Glyph the 7,200 RPM and FireWire 800 was enough for me.