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MonoPoly on Kronos
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Polysix is pretty much my go-to synth when it comes to sound design on my Kronos. That's mainly because it's the one that I'm most familiar with. After that it's the MS-20.
A Mono/Poly would be right up my alley!
Truth be told though, I highly doubt that we'll ever see it happen. I think my best bet is to have.it on my iPad.
Another truth is that I really need to get a grip on the AL-1 and the Mod -7 engines. The power of just those two is beyond mind boggling.
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Saxifraga
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeremykeys wrote:
Truth be told though, I highly doubt that we'll ever see it happen. I think my best bet is to have.it on my iPad.
Another truth is that I really need to get a grip on the AL-1 and the Mod -7 engines. The power of just those two is beyond mind boggling.


I donīt understand Korgs development politics. Why do they enhance their Kronos line only with samples, chained to a single Kronos not a user account, and patches? Why not more engines? If the OS can handle 9 engines it should be able to handle +X more. Or do they hardcode everything into a monolithic core? Didnīt the Oasys allow you to buy individual engines for download, which are now part of the Kronos?

They allready have the code for their old analog synths as VAs for iPad and PC. So why not compiling them as a downloadable plugin?
Why donīt they build an 'engine/samples/patch shop system' into their synths and utilze the wifi thatīs part of most Intel boards? Why not utilize the component system approach again? BYOS='Build your own synth'.
Select freely from at least 3 different keybeds in at least ten different colors. Select modules analog or digital wich talk over a common bus to each other. If modular is in with analog why not make digital modular. And add different touchscreen displays wich work like an iPad!

It worked wonders for Apple.
Pixar, iTunes and iPhone/iPad with App-store did save Apple from going under.

Why not going for greatness instead of mediocre things like Kross and MS-20 mini / Volca stuff? Korg shure as 'there is no hell' will give us more analog gimicks and boards without aftertouch or with BLKBLK/REDBLK keys. Itīs nearly 2014 and Korg still does 1980 and 95 stuff and seem to have done all they are able with Kronos OS 2.0.6.

jm2c
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no insight in their development process and like you, I would love to see some of these things. But I would say they have already tried (as you said) with Oasys and M3/Radias and they weren't very successful. The other big companies haven't even tried or failed even more miserably (VariOS by Roland?). Smaller companies seem to come and go (Open Sound Neko and Miko, StudioBlade, Groove XR).

So no matter what you and I might like to see, so far the larger picture seems that is not profitable and quite risky.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxifraga wrote:
jeremykeys wrote:
Truth be told though, I highly doubt that we'll ever see it happen. I think my best bet is to have.it on my iPad.
Another truth is that I really need to get a grip on the AL-1 and the Mod -7 engines. The power of just those two is beyond mind boggling.


I donīt understand Korgs development politics. Why do they enhance their Kronos line only with samples, chained to a single Kronos not a user account, and patches? Why not more engines? If the OS can handle 9 engines it should be able to handle +X more. Or do they hardcode everything into a monolithic core? Didnīt the Oasys allow you to buy individual engines for download, which are now part of the Kronos?

They allready have the code for their old analog synths as VAs for iPad and PC. So why not compiling them as a downloadable plugin?



Good question ... I think it should be possible for them to make more EXis for the Kronos (as software). Maybe they want to add it in the successor of the Kronos. If they allow everything to upgrade the difference between the Kronos and the next synth will be relatively small.

Saxifraga wrote:


Why donīt they build an 'engine/samples/patch shop system' into their synths and utilze the wifi thatīs part of most Intel boards?


I think a lot of synths are not or almost never connected by internet, let alone WIFI ... also building such a system is reasonably expensive (software wise and for management point of view for so small number of sold Kronosses compared to 'consumer electronics'.

Saxifraga wrote:

Why not utilize the component system approach again? BYOS='Build your own synth'.
Select freely from at least 3 different keybeds in at least ten different colors. Select modules analog or digital wich talk over a common bus to each other. If modular is in with analog why not make digital modular. And add different touchscreen displays wich work like an iPad!

It worked wonders for Apple.
Pixar, iTunes and iPhone/iPad with App-store did save Apple from going under.


It works for Apple because it is consumer electronics sold by millions instead of thousands. If the development cost is let's say 1 million, it would cost 1000 extra per sold Kronos, compared to 1 for an Apple.

Also it has been tried with the M3 and it is not done anymore ... probably because of the cost.

Saxifraga wrote:


Why not going for greatness instead of mediocre things like Kross and MS-20 mini / Volca stuff? Korg shure as 'there is no hell' will give us more analog gimicks and boards without aftertouch or with BLKBLK/REDBLK keys. Itīs nearly 2014 and Korg still does 1980 and 95 stuff and seem to have done all they are able with Kronos OS 2.0.6.


High likely because a lot of people just want to have a toy to play with and not spend thousands of dollars for a decent instrument.

Korg is compared to other synth builders ahead of their time ... so if you would say Korg is in a 1980/1995 period, competitors would be in 1970 probably.

It is so easy to compare a niche market (which I consider synths to be in) to consumer electronics. Development cost divided by sold products is the main difference here.

[/quote]
Saxifraga wrote:


jm2c

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NuSkoolTone
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxifraga wrote:


I donīt understand Korgs development politics. Why do they enhance their Kronos line only with samples, chained to a single Kronos not a user account, and patches? Why not more engines? If the OS can handle 9 engines it should be able to handle +X more. Or do they hardcode everything into a monolithic core? Didnīt the Oasys allow you to buy individual engines for download, which are now part of the Kronos?

They already have the code for their old analog synths as VAs for iPad and PC.

jm2c


I wonder this as well. My drummer showed me his Korg Legacy collection app on his iPad and has so much more than what's on the Kronos. I was like WTH?
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxifraga wrote:
They allready have the code for their old analog synths as VAs for iPad and PC. So why not compiling them as a downloadable plugin?


Obviously it is not merely a matter to "compile" them to implement them in the Kronos.

Saxifraga wrote:

Why not utilize the component system approach again? BYOS='Build your own synth'.


Since you're interested in this, I'd suggest reading my recent posts on the subject (from last week, I believe).

- Dan
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NuSkoolTone wrote:
Saxifraga wrote:


I donīt understand Korgs development politics. Why do they enhance their Kronos line only with samples, chained to a single Kronos not a user account, and patches? Why not more engines? If the OS can handle 9 engines it should be able to handle +X more. Or do they hardcode everything into a monolithic core? Didnīt the Oasys allow you to buy individual engines for download, which are now part of the Kronos?

They already have the code for their old analog synths as VAs for iPad and PC.

jm2c


I wonder this as well. My drummer showed me his Korg Legacy collection app on his iPad and has so much more than what's on the Kronos. I was like WTH?


WTH, indeed. I think you'll find that the opposite is the case: the KRONOS versions are rather more powerful.
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For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
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Gambler
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
High likely because a lot of people just want to have a toy to play with and not spend thousands of dollars for a decent instrument.

Developing those "toys" also costs considerable money, though. They need new hardware, packaging, marketing, etc. Kronos already has a large user base, and will have even larger user base as it becomes cheaper.

Moreover, I just don't see Volkas and MS-20 Mini as huge sellers. There are much more interesting toys out there for roughly the same price. Most new people probably try an iPad app, and then go for Kaoss-somethng or microKorg, Mopho, or one of those later Casio keyboards.

danatkorg wrote:
Since you're interested in this, I'd suggest reading my recent posts on the subject (from last week, I believe).

I'm interested too, but can't find it.

Quote:
WTH, indeed. I think you'll find that the opposite is the case: the KRONOS versions are rather more powerful.

People probably think it's better, because it has more intuitive UI.
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Danatkorg: "Since you're interested in this, I'd suggest reading my recent posts on the subject (from last week, I believe)."

I myself would love to read these but it's late, I'm in a hotel in Florida and my wife wants me to go to bed. Now!

Can somebody possibly direct me?

Thanks!
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If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gambler wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
High likely because a lot of people just want to have a toy to play with and not spend thousands of dollars for a decent instrument.

Developing those "toys" also costs considerable money, though. They need new hardware, packaging, marketing, etc. Kronos already has a large user base, and will have even larger user base as it becomes cheaper.

Moreover, I just don't see Volkas and MS-20 Mini as huge sellers. There are much more interesting toys out there for roughly the same price. Most new people probably try an iPad app, and then go for Kaoss-somethng or microKorg, Mopho, or one of those later Casio keyboards.



True ... however I think a lot of customers don't want to buy a $2000-$3000 Kronos while a cheaper synth for a few hundred euros might be within their budget ... possibly as a startup to buy a Kronos (or other more professional Korg ) synth/workstation later.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeremykeys wrote:
From Danatkorg: "Since you're interested in this, I'd suggest reading my recent posts on the subject (from last week, I believe)."

I myself would love to read these but it's late, I'm in a hotel in Florida and my wife wants me to go to bed. Now!

Can somebody possibly direct me?

Thanks!


http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=560258#560258
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Dniss
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I see it is that people that bought a Kronos are not about to replace it for a new workstation anytime soon. I had my TEX for a long time and went from TEX to Kronos. No M3.

So from a business point of view, since such a release doesn't require any manufacturing cost per say, or hardly any distrubtion cost (mostly labour), it's an interesting revenue stream until such a time where people changes their workstation.

It's also help keeping all the developement (and the expertise) staff busy instead of laying of.

Someone mentionned that Korg tried that in the past and failed? Would any of you seriously consider not buying this new engine for Kronos? I find that hard to believe.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only Korg has sales figures for Oasys expansions. But even if they sold relatively well, Oasys was for a much higher price segment and was marketed from the beginning as open.

I'd love some more engines and would probably buy one if it fit what I'm looking for. But I seriously doubt that everyone would feel the same way. Also depends heavily on what they'd release, I suppose.
Right now I'm not expecting anything at all, to be honest.
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NuSkoolTone
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
NuSkoolTone wrote:
Saxifraga wrote:


I donīt understand Korgs development politics. Why do they enhance their Kronos line only with samples, chained to a single Kronos not a user account, and patches? Why not more engines? If the OS can handle 9 engines it should be able to handle +X more. Or do they hardcode everything into a monolithic core? Didnīt the Oasys allow you to buy individual engines for download, which are now part of the Kronos?

They already have the code for their old analog synths as VAs for iPad and PC.

jm2c


I wonder this as well. My drummer showed me his Korg Legacy collection app on his iPad and has so much more than what's on the Kronos. I was like WTH?


WTH, indeed. I think you'll find that the opposite is the case: the KRONOS versions are rather more powerful.


Of course that is nice to hear. Though when they were showing me the app (But not demoing it) there were all these features that would be nice to see make their way to the Kronos.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are like touchpads and basic step sequencers. The touchpads are arguably not available on the Kronos, though the VJS lets you do essentially the same thing. The Kronos sequencer is rather more powerful I would say. Not to mention things like polyphony, effects, being able to combine with multiple engines, etc.
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