Korg Forums

navigatorxx · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: HD or SSD Disk?

Hi, does anyone know 'if' our PA3x has the 'HD or the' SSD drive or mixed technology, and if 'you can' replace 'HD with a SSd maybe only 60 gb, since it is 80 euros.
Thanks

Bye
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PA5x 61 ---- Otherwise what else ?

AntonySharmman · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:08 am Post subject:

Yes , You can directly replace internal HD with pin compatible type SSD !
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Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10418

Would you really gain anything by replacing the HDD with SSD?
I can't see where this would be of benefit....

Very Happy

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navigatorxx · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject:

miden · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject:

There is no SSD on the PA3. Perhaps you are confusing it with Flash Ram, or more specifically in the PA series, NAND Flash.

As you would be aware apart from streaming data, NO programs or OS's actually "run" from a hard drive, be it SSD, OR HDD....

In the PA series case, the OS and all settings are loaded into the NAND flash ram, from where it is run.

As Pete says, there really is not much point at all. About the only two differences are that a SSD has no noise (no moving parts) but the current HDD is practically silent anyway - and it (the SSD) is "technically" faster on read/write cycles.

I say "technically", because in the real world you will see not much difference at all between an SSD and a 7200rpm Sata 2/3 HDD. And a marginal speed difference between an SSD and a good 5400 RPM sata 2/3 HDD. At this stage DEFINITELY not worth the price of upgrade in my view. If the cost of a SSD gets to the same as an equivalent HDD, then I would consider buying one.

And as the PA series cannot stream VSTi or software instruments of any kind or audio from the hard drive, then the speed is really a moot point. As you would be aware sound samples are loaded into a specific sample RAM - a long time "bete noir" of the whole Korg PA series. The lack of large sample RAM.

As a digression, just imagine if we could load the Ivory pianos into sample flash RAM!!! Shocked

But that's another story and not for this thread Wink

The SSD does have a finite number of read/write cycles, but in real terms it, unles it is absolutely "flogged" it would probably outlast the life of the keyboard...Good quality SSD's are now up to several million separate full read/write cycles.

As far as I know the HDD in the PA is a 5400 rpm, so you COULD gain some speed by swapping it out for a 7200...but in the 2.5" HDD class, 7200 speed versions are hard to find and a good deal more expensive. AND they generate more heat.

As an opinion, I think Korg have done a good job in the balance of the HDD onboard...between size, speed, access times and noise floor..

Yes there are gains to be made, but really - what for? Face palm

AntonySharmman · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject:

navigatorxx · Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:23 am Post subject:

Yes, thanks, both answers were very thorough and clear years of my questions. Hopefully in the future, maybe we can find a way (hacking) of the storage system more 'efficient of our PA3x thanks a lot

bye
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PA5x 61 ---- Otherwise what else ?

AntonySharmman · Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:12 am Post subject:

Is essential to remind to all that HD of Pa3X does not participate at OPS booting & Factory
resources since all are written in mainboard system SSD-S and not on HD which is just a storage
media device and upgrading it to SSD or whatever is not tweaking but waste of your money !

Update : Part of user's sampling data are written in HD if User data exceed 65 Mb size !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

navigatorxx · Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject:

MadrasGiaguari · Full Member Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 200 Location: Italy

Dear friends,

IMHO ther could be another factor, besides was mentioned above, to think about an SSD instead of an HDD: the SSD does not have any mobile part, and therefore is much more reliable against mechanical components failure/breaking.

This feature is not theoretical, as whoever had a HDD breaking knows. I had Korg assistance to replace on may PA1X the original HDD that suddenly became 100% dead. The cost for replacing the HDD (working hours + new HDD) was'nt insignificant... In my case I was lucky because I had saved/backuped most of my data on the PC; and the most recent (not saved yet on the PC) data where copied from the broken HDD by an expert friend of mine.

That was my second bad experience with HDD: I already had the breaking of the HDD on my IBM T23, that was considered the best and most reliable notebook on the market.

Of course this feature gets even more important if you often move/transport your keyboard, as in this case all movable/mechanic parts are even more stressed.

I have no doubt that a little higher price for SSD offers a much more dependable storage of your data.

Ciao Very Happy

Sharp · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject:

I've replaced HHD with a SSD for a friend only recently.
There is no benefit in speed as the Pa3X doesn't use much bandwidth at all.

The only benefit is there are no moving parts in a SSD, and magnetic fields such as speaker don't effect the SSD. This was the most important factory for my friend as he was cramming his Pa3X in the back of a car with his PA Speakers.

Regards
Sharp.
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musicrazy · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject:

Ok then the HD on pa3x is used only for user storage of samples, styles, mp3, midis etc. But i know pa3x doesn't boot without hd installed (the pa3x 76 version). This month a friend of mine was playing and the keyboard started to freeze every 1 or 2 minutes after boot. The korg service center diagnosed a faulty hd (bad sectors). I don't understand why the keyboard needs the hd if it's only for storage. Didn't try it but i bet on korg pa3x 61 if i remove the 4 gb pen (emulating the hard drive on this keyboard) It won't boot. So this is Hardware architecture problem or there is a hidden folder on disk that korg needs during boot ? (it was there on pa2x).
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PA3Xpro
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Ipad 4 with midi bridge

AntonySharmman · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:55 am Post subject:

musicrazy

I'm afraid that you're right up to a point since Nand Flash costs !
I don't own Pa3X service manual yet to investigate further details but my
speculations might be right as concerned to internal NAND Serial Flash !
Seem to happen the same as in Pa2X , where only 64 Mb were written into
NAND Serial Flash and the rest of user samples are written on HD into a
hidden folder , and in that case HD partially participates on start Up
for some user samples that are read from there , if Ram ST-BY is turned off !
But still OPS is written in mobo Nand Flash Rom !

By the way I suggest advanced users to defragment occasionally HD or SSD of Pa3X
via a PC/Mac and a Pro defragment utility to keep it healthy.
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

musicrazy · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject:

Hi. I think pa2x and pa3x uses the nand flash to store internal samples. We know that the internal samples can be erased and loaded by the Format tool and os_res pack. If you try to load only os after format will see that there isn't any internal sample onboard, so we load them with the os_res . On the hidden folder of the pa2x are all the pcm files contained exactly as on a save_all set. So all the user samples are there ready to load during boot if needed. (sometimes on pa3x and allway on pa2x because the absence of the battery on this older model).

But..... I still think that's not a reason for pa3x not boot without HD. In case of hd fail (very common indeed) we get a nonboot keyboard. If korg could alter this the keyboard would boot with no samples and we could load samples from usb and still be able to play a gig..........
_________________
PA5X
PA3Xpro
M3
Alesis vortex wireless
Ipad 4 with midi bridge

Shahin · Full Member Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 100 Location: IRAN

a quick response for navigatorxx :

you may wanna read the whole thread if you havent yet, it will clarify on booting speed.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=68437&highlight=ssd
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