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fjs714
Senior Member
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 400
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 Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: Maximum length of Balanced Cables for live performance |
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Hi Fellas,
I'm doing a live job with 2 QSC speakers. My Kronos is going to be a bit of a distance from one of them. How long cables could I get before the quality of the sound is effected (if at all)?
Thanks
Frank |
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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IIRC, the max length of balanced cables should be less than 20 meters, or approx. 65 feet. Better to be safe and not go beyond 50 to avoid signal loss.
..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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fjs714
Senior Member
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 400
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Joe |
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fjs714
Senior Member
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 400
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Almost forgot
Does it make any difference if both cables are different in length?
Thanks |
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philmagnotta
Full Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 132
Location: Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
You mentioned balanced cable so, I assumed you were connecting the K to another device such as a D.I. or un-balanced to balanced line driver, etc device. There is no 65 foot max limit on balanced cables. It depends on the sending and receiving device. In fact, some devices allow even a 200 foot run. Can you explain how it is your K is sending balanced signals please? Regarding different lengths... If only several feet, No but if 20, 30 or more then Yes but, it depends on a few more details, if you would be more specific. |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| philmagnotta wrote: | You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
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AFAIK it does via TRS. I just upgraded my live snake to TRS for the Kronos and while I haven't verified it with a dedicated a/b test, I believe there was more output as well!
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Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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LZ
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 590
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| NuSkoolTone wrote: | | philmagnotta wrote: | You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
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AFAIK it does via TRS. I just upgraded my live snake to TRS for the Kronos and while I haven't verified it with a dedicated a/b test, I believe there was more output as well! |
Typically you will get a hotter output running balanced, since the way the TRS connectors work, if you run unbalanced, you're essentially getting half the voltage, or 3dB less output.
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DavyP
Full Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 166
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: Balanced outputs |
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| philmagnotta wrote: | You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
You mentioned balanced cable so, I assumed you were connecting the K to another device such as a D.I. or un-balanced to balanced line driver, etc device. There is no 65 foot max limit on balanced cables. It depends on the sending and receiving device. In fact, some devices allow even a 200 foot run. Can you explain how it is your K is sending balanced signals please? Regarding different lengths... If only several feet, No but if 20, 30 or more then Yes but, it depends on a few more details, if you would be more specific. |
According to the manuals the inputs and outputs are definitely all 1/4" TRS balanced connections.
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Korg Kronos 88, Korg M1, Novation SL61 MKII, Roland JV1080 with Techno expansion, Roland D110, Yamaha MU80, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, Akai ME30PII midi patch bay, Behringer RX1602 mixer, ESI ESP1010e audio interface, Quad Core PC, Cubase Pro 9.0, SE X1 condenser mic.
Guitars: Yamaha SG700, Ovation Applause electro-acoustic, Squier Strat, Roland micro cube amp.
Former: Roland Jupiter 6, Yamaha DX9, Akai X7000 sampler, Casio CZ1000, Roland SH101, Roland TR909, Roland MC500mk2, Emu Procussion. |
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Phil:
There is no exact limited cable length, but using the standard 3dB signal loss over 100 feet without amplification of signal, and the fact that balanced IS 3dB of signal, then at 100 feet there is theoretically zero signal.
Which is why I stated limiting it to 50 feet.
..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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50 feet is sensible for most semi-pro equipment. Shorter is usually preferred.
But depending on the equipment, cables can also run hundreds of feet without problems. |
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fjs714
Senior Member
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 400
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Boy,
You guys really know your stuff. I try to keep it simple. I connect the Kronos directly to my QSC speakers. I have one on either side of the drummer since he's in the middle of the stage. I also elevate them. That's why I wanted to know if different length Balanced cables (that's what I have) would affect the signal and thus the stereo sound.
Thanks again |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Not noticeably, and especially not in the context. |
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iKeyborg
Joined: 08 Mar 2013
Posts: 25
Location: USA NH
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum length of Balanced Cables for live performance |
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| fjs714 wrote: | Hi Fellas,
I'm doing a live job with 2 QSC speakers. My Kronos is going to be a bit of a distance from one of them. How long cables could I get before the quality of the sound is effected (if at all)?
Thanks
Frank |
Longest cable can have 300' - 400'. It is not a problem for Kronos outputs.
You would not see any difference if another cable is significantly shorter.
Kornos has balanced outputs with impedance 350 Ohm. It can drive 10000pf - 15000pF of cable capacitance with signal loss at 20kHz about 1dBV. Typical balanced cable has 25 - 35 pF/ft. With 3bBV high frequency loss you can go up to 1000ft with good cable. |
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ronnfigg
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2141
Location: CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| fjs714 wrote: | Boy,
You guys really know your stuff. I try to keep it simple. I connect the Kronos directly to my QSC speakers. I have one on either side of the drummer sithe sweet spot in the stepnce he's in the middle of the stage. I also elevate them. That's why I wanted to know if different length Balanced cables (that's what I have) would affect the signal and thus the stereo sound.
Thanks again |
that is an interesting way to monitor your keyboard. Does the drummer get upset when you blast him out because the speakers are closer to him than they are to you? How do you achieve the sweet spot in the stereo field for yourself?
_________________
"To me the synthesizer was always a source of new sounds that musicians could use to expand the range of possibilities for making music."
Bob Moog |
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ronnfigg
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2141
Location: CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| fjs714 wrote: | Boy,
You guys really know your stuff. I try to keep it simple. I connect the Kronos directly to my QSC speakers. I have one on either side of the drummer sithe sweet spot in the stepnce he's in the middle of the stage. I also elevate them. That's why I wanted to know if different length Balanced cables (that's what I have) would affect the signal and thus the stereo sound.
Thanks again |
that is an interesting way to monitor your keyboard. Does the drummer get upset when you blast him out because the speakers are closer to him than they are to you? How do you achieve the sweet spot in the stereo field for yourself?
_________________
"To me the synthesizer was always a source of new sounds that musicians could use to expand the range of possibilities for making music."
Bob Moog |
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