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PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Z1
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Z1 Reply with quote

From now on PCG Tools (see http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl) is available for the following models too:
- Korg M1, M1EX, M1R, M1R-EX
- Korg M3R
- Korg 01/W, 01/W FD, 01/W pro, 01/W pro X, 01R/W
- Korg 03R/W
- Korg Z1, Z1EX
- Korg T1, T1EX, T2, T2EX, T3, T3EX,

See for more info: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=592986#592986

PCG Tools is a free librarian / list generator for a lot of Korg synths/workstations.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently I launched PCG Tools for a lot of older synthesizers. However, I noticed not many people are waiting for this, so I have to think I will stop adding support for more older synthesizers. Of course I will keep it in the wish list but on lower priority.
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synthjoe
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great news, Michel!

I'll give it a test drive, but could you please hint how it will work with the T-series? Does it use the proprietary disk format, or perhaps direct via MIDI? Or I just make a full dump from the synth via some sysEX tool to my computer and your program digests the resulting file? I'm asking this because I'm unaware of a straightforward way to generate PDG files from the M/T series.

I'm sure you have it all covered in the manual and/or on your site, it's just that I did not get the time to check it. A quick line would be helpful!

Thanks,
D.

Edit: knew you did it - using the link in the post above I found in the release notes that you deal with MID/SYX files - please correct me if I'm wrong. Let me know when you want to go for direct MIDI support, I can share some experiences from my work on the T-series Multisample Editor.
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthjoe wrote:
This is great news, Michel!

I'll give it a test drive, but could you please hint how it will work with the T-series? Does it use the proprietary disk format, or perhaps direct via MIDI? Or I just make a full dump from the synth via some sysEX tool to my computer and your program digests the resulting file? I'm asking this because I'm unaware of a straightforward way to generate PDG files from the M/T series.

I'm sure you have it all covered in the manual and/or on your site, it's just that I did not get the time to check it. A quick line would be helpful!

Thanks,
D.

Edit: knew you did it - using the link in the post above I found in the release notes that you deal with MID/SYX files - please correct me if I'm wrong. Let me know when you want to go for direct MIDI support, I can share some experiences from my work on the T-series Multisample Editor.


It indeed works with a .SYX file or with a MID file containing SYX information. The T series do not have a PCG format, but since the program is called this way for about 3 years I did not want to change the name.

I'm not sure if and when I'm going to add real/time MIDI support and even then I probably start with the Kronos, working my way back to older synths. BUt it is on the wish list (see the manual).

I will come back to you for your experiences, might be very valuable since I don't have a T series synth myself.
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
From now on PCG Tools (see http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl) is available for the following models too:
- Korg M1, M1EX, M1R, M1R-EX
- Korg M3R
- Korg 01/W, 01/W FD, 01/W pro, 01/W pro X, 01R/W
- Korg 03R/W
- Korg Z1, Z1EX
- Korg T1, T1EX, T2, T2EX, T3, T3EX,

See for more info: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=592986#592986

PCG Tools is a free librarian / list generator for a lot of Korg synths/workstations.

Would you please indicate what features your program includes for the M1 and T-series? I've downloaded the manual, but it doesn't seem to cover the recently added synths. I also downloaded the program, but until I know what it does, I'm not willing to install the required Microsoft .NET Framework 4.0 Client.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
From now on PCG Tools (see http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl) is available for the following models too:
- Korg M1, M1EX, M1R, M1R-EX
- Korg M3R
- Korg 01/W, 01/W FD, 01/W pro, 01/W pro X, 01R/W
- Korg 03R/W
- Korg Z1, Z1EX
- Korg T1, T1EX, T2, T2EX, T3, T3EX,

See for more info: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=592986#592986

PCG Tools is a free librarian / list generator for a lot of Korg synths/workstations.

Would you please indicate what features your program includes for the M1 and T-series? I've downloaded the manual, but it doesn't seem to cover the recently added synths. I also downloaded the program, but until I know what it does, I'm not willing to install the required Microsoft .NET Framework 4.0 Client.


True, I have to admit the manually is a bit behind ... to see the latest state of supported, check out the website http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl.

The features are equal to what is already described in the manual, so since you downloaded it you know ... also on the website the features are shown, so it's not useful to repeat them here (that is why I made the website and manual after all). But I really should update the manual (takes a lot of time though).


The .NET Framework is in most cases installed automatically (if not already on your system).

[/url]
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
True, I have to admit the manually is a bit behind ... to see the latest state of supported, check out the website http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl.

The features are equal to what is already described in the manual, so since you downloaded it you know ... also on the website the features are shown, so it's not useful to repeat them here (that is why I made the website and manual after all). But I really should update the manual (takes a lot of time though).

As you know, the M1 and T-series don't use PCG files - bulk dumps from those synths are stored as SYX. It's unclear how much of what's shown in the manual or on your website is implemented for the M1 and T-series in PCG Tools, since there's no specific mention of them. Does "the features are equal", mean everything shown for synths that use PCG files can be done for the M1 and T-series?

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
The .NET Framework is in most cases installed automatically (if not already on your system).

The computer I use for music applications is running XP SP3, which does not have .NET Framework installed by default. Furthermore, for security reasons that computer has no Internet connection.
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
True, I have to admit the manually is a bit behind ... to see the latest state of supported, check out the website http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl.

The features are equal to what is already described in the manual, so since you downloaded it you know ... also on the website the features are shown, so it's not useful to repeat them here (that is why I made the website and manual after all). But I really should update the manual (takes a lot of time though).

As you know, the M1 and T-series don't use PCG files - bulk dumps from those synths are stored as SYX. It's unclear how much of what's shown in the manual or on your website is implemented for the M1 and T-series in PCG Tools, since there's no specific mention of them. Does "the features are equal", mean everything shown for synths that use PCG files can be done for the M1 and T-series?

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
The .NET Framework is in most cases installed automatically (if not already on your system).

The computer I use for music applications is running XP SP3, which does not have .NET Framework installed by default. Furthermore, for security reasons that computer has no Internet connection.


Yes you are fully right in that.

I will try to explain it here in short and later put it in detail in the manual:
The workflow is:
- Make sure that you get the .syx (or midi files with .syx information) as FILES. This can be done either by downloading them, having them already present on your computer or use some other application to retrieve sysex information from your synth and save them as a syx file (like MIDI-OX can).
- Load all syx/mid files into PCG Tools
- Then you can manage all the loaded files, e.g. make lists of them, copy from one file to another, rename patches etc; these are the features of PCG Tools
- When you are finished, you save all (changed) files.
- Then you can use the same program (like MIDI-OX) use to send a syx/mid file back to your synthesizer.

In case it has no internet, you indeed need to download/install the .NET library yourself ... in the manual is explained how (don't know if it goes into detail without an internet connection, but on the website is probably shown also a full version to be downloadable).

Hope this answers your questions, otherwise I gladly like to answer more.
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
In case it has no internet, you indeed need to download/install the .NET library yourself ... in the manual is explained how (don't know if it goes into detail without an internet connection, but on the website is probably shown also a full version to be downloadable).

Since I'm running a 32-bit OS, rather than downloading the .NET file suggested in the manual (which covers both 32-bit and 64-bit), I saved some time and space by using:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/6/4/5641DA81-E6FA-4550-9F80-A1D862D9CFAA/dotNetFx40_Full_x86.exe

After installing .NET Framework 4.0, PCG Tools installation successfully completed. However, running it for the first time resulted in an error screen. Subsequent runs sometimes were OK, although occasionally produced the error display. Selecting some menu items resulted in crashes. For example, if no file has been opened, selecting "Tools", and then just mousing over "Master Files" causes a crash. If I detect other reproducible patterns, I'll document them and/or send you screen captures of any error displays.

It seems that the "Manual..." selection in the "About" menu doesn't take into account a computer that isn't online. You might consider adding the choice of finding the manual on the local machine.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
In case it has no internet, you indeed need to download/install the .NET library yourself ... in the manual is explained how (don't know if it goes into detail without an internet connection, but on the website is probably shown also a full version to be downloadable).

Since I'm running a 32-bit OS, rather than downloading the .NET file suggested in the manual (which covers both 32-bit and 64-bit), I saved some time and space by using:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/6/4/5641DA81-E6FA-4550-9F80-A1D862D9CFAA/dotNetFx40_Full_x86.exe

After installing .NET Framework 4.0, PCG Tools installation successfully completed. However, running it for the first time resulted in an error screen. Subsequent runs sometimes were OK, although occasionally produced the error display. Selecting some menu items resulted in crashes. For example, if no file has been opened, selecting "Tools", and then just mousing over "Master Files" causes a crash. If I detect other reproducible patterns, I'll document them and/or send you screen captures of any error displays.

It seems that the "Manual..." selection in the "About" menu doesn't take into account a computer that isn't online. You might consider adding the choice of finding the manual on the local machine.


Thank you very much for trying and your bug reports.

In my development version the Master Files menu problem is already solved (fix will be in the next release). About the manual, that's true. I would need to check if I can add the manual in the app, but normally I make them separately and takes me quite some extra time to add it in both. Also it's another 8 or 9 MB and don't know if my website can handle it (without extra costs). But I will try to find a solution to make it available offline another way.

if you find more issues, please let me know.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
[...] About the manual, that's true. I would need to check if I can add the manual in the app, but normally I make them separately and takes me quite some extra time to add it in both. Also it's another 8 or 9 MB and don't know if my website can handle it (without extra costs). But I will try to find a solution to make it available offline another way.

The manual could remain separate, as long as it can be called by the program without going out to the Web. By the way, using the index is somewhat frustrating, since the page numbering doesn't agree with that of the PDF. You have to add 26 to what the index shows in order to find the correct PDF page. Also, there are references to paragraph numbers in the text of the manual that don't agree with the content, and some of the paragraph numbering at the upper right of pages doesn't agree with paragraph numbers on those pages.


michelkeijzers wrote:
if you find more issues, please let me know.

I'm using Windows Pro XP SP3, and my monitor is set to 1280x1024. The Combi window only initially extends to the "Pri" column, and a horizontal scroll bar has to be used to see "MIDI", "Key Zone", etc., columns. If the Combi window could be resized, the situation could be corrected, but it appears that the window is of a fixed size.

My T3 isn't set up right now, and it might be a while before I reconnect it. I've been looking at files that I previously saved, including factory preset files. Based on my memory, Timbres (Progs) that I'm seeing listed in some Combis seem incorrect. When I get a chance, I'll compare what the T3 indicates versus the program.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
[...] About the manual, that's true. I would need to check if I can add the manual in the app, but normally I make them separately and takes me quite some extra time to add it in both. Also it's another 8 or 9 MB and don't know if my website can handle it (without extra costs). But I will try to find a solution to make it available offline another way.

The manual could remain separate, as long as it can be called by the program without going out to the Web. By the way, using the index is somewhat frustrating, since the page numbering doesn't agree with that of the PDF. You have to add 26 to what the index shows in order to find the correct PDF page. Also, there are references to paragraph numbers in the text of the manual that don't agree with the content, and some of the paragraph numbering at the upper right of pages doesn't agree with paragraph numbers on those pages.


michelkeijzers wrote:
if you find more issues, please let me know.

I'm using Windows Pro XP SP3, and my monitor is set to 1280x1024. The Combi window only initially extends to the "Pri" column, and a horizontal scroll bar has to be used to see "MIDI", "Key Zone", etc., columns. If the Combi window could be resized, the situation could be corrected, but it appears that the window is of a fixed size.

My T3 isn't set up right now, and it might be a while before I reconnect it. I've been looking at files that I previously saved, including factory preset files. Based on my memory, Timbres (Progs) that I'm seeing listed in some Combis seem incorrect. When I get a chance, I'll compare what the T3 indicates versus the program.


About the manual:
- I will make it user locatable via preferences (or otherwise use a fixed location like CSmile, and you can copy the manual yourself to that location.
- About the page numbering, I will check into that. I think it's for every PDF document, not only this manual. PDF pages are different than document numbers because normally the first set of pages are not numbered (or differently). But I don't mind to change it.
- About the paragraph names: yes I saw this, especially at the end; I'm intending to move some parts from the manual to the website (like the wish list and/of release history). The last is already moved.

About the combi window: I use a 3th party window manager and it has some strange behaviors. The problem is, you don't see a cursor change, but you still can move any window (well most windows), and the combi window is one of them. It will also be remembered for next time such window type is opened.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
- About the page numbering, I will check into that. I think it's for every PDF document, not only this manual. PDF pages are different than document numbers because normally the first set of pages are not numbered (or differently). But I don't mind to change it.

It's true that PDF documents often number every page, including title and contents pages, etc. However, since it's unlikely that many users of your program will print the manual, having the index agree with PDF page numbering seems worthwhile. This might be helpful: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/PDF17.html

Alternatively, the index could give two numbers, with the PDF page in parentheses immediately following the printed page number. Example: Timbres 28(54), 42(68)

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
About the combi window: I use a 3th party window manager and it has some strange behaviors. The problem is, you don't see a cursor change, but you still can move any window (well most windows), and the combi window is one of them. It will also be remembered for next time such window type is opened.

OK, I was able to resize the combi window, and the change was retained. I was also able to resize column headings (Category, Sub Category), but unfortunately that wasn't retained.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
- About the page numbering, I will check into that. I think it's for every PDF document, not only this manual. PDF pages are different than document numbers because normally the first set of pages are not numbered (or differently). But I don't mind to change it.

It's true that PDF documents often number every page, including title and contents pages, etc. However, since it's unlikely that many users of your program will print the manual, having the index agree with PDF page numbering seems worthwhile. This might be helpful: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/PDF17.html

Alternatively, the index could give two numbers, with the PDF page in parentheses immediately following the printed page number. Example: Timbres 28(54), 42(6Cool

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
About the combi window: I use a 3th party window manager and it has some strange behaviors. The problem is, you don't see a cursor change, but you still can move any window (well most windows), and the combi window is one of them. It will also be remembered for next time such window type is opened.

OK, I was able to resize the combi window, and the change was retained. I was also able to resize column headings (Category, Sub Category), but unfortunately that wasn't retained.


About the page numbers: I keep it simple ... so I will change the page numbers eventually starting at 1; I'm not using acrobat writer or a PDF writer, so I cannot use the technique from the link; also the index is generated automatically, so I cannot use double page numbers.

I think the column retaining is in the wish list, but on quite low priority. If not, I will add it to the wish list.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

I've had a chance to connect my T3 and compare some of what PCG Tools shows versus the Korg's own display. I loaded the t2t3pl.SYX file available from Korg. Much of what PCG Tools shows is accurate, but as I mentioned previously, there are some issues. In the following, errors in the program's "Timbres..." display (Combi window) are noted by corrections in parentheses.

Code:

C00 CosmicRain
#   Prg ID      Program Name
1   A20         Night Dad
2   A00 (B00)   Aeroglide (One World)
3   A11 (OFF)   E.Piano 1 (Timbre OFF)
4   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
5   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
6   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
7   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
8   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)

C01 PianoHaven
#   Prg ID      Program Name              Trans
1   B51         Piano2 8'                 0 (-02)
2   B21         Pad Piano                 0 (+02)
3   B21         Pad Piano                 0
4   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
5   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
6   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
7   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
8   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0

C02 Jazz Band
#   Prg ID      Program Name              Trans
1   B02         Piano2 8'                 0 (+05)
2   A72         Pad Piano                 0
3   A12         Pad Piano                 0 (-05)
4   B80 (OFF)   Start Orch (Timbre OFF)   0
5   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0
6   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0
7   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0
8   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0


I haven't checked beyond the above. If I had to "guess", the phantom programs and other problems might be related to incorrect 7-bit/8-bit conversion. I'll check further if an updated version of the program is made available that resolves what I found so far.
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