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PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Z1
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
I've had a chance to connect my T3 and compare some of what PCG Tools shows versus the Korg's own display. I loaded the t2t3pl.SYX file available from Korg. Much of what PCG Tools shows is accurate, but as I mentioned previously, there are some issues. In the following, errors in the program's "Timbres..." display (Combi window) are noted by corrections in parentheses.

Code:

C00 CosmicRain
#   Prg ID      Program Name
1   A20         Night Dad
2   A00 (B00)   Aeroglide (One World)
3   A11 (OFF)   E.Piano 1 (Timbre OFF)
4   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
5   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
6   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
7   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)
8   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)

C01 PianoHaven
#   Prg ID      Program Name              Trans
1   B51         Piano2 8'                 0 (-02)
2   B21         Pad Piano                 0 (+02)
3   B21         Pad Piano                 0
4   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
5   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
6   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
7   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0
8   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide (Timbre OFF)    0

C02 Jazz Band
#   Prg ID      Program Name              Trans
1   B02         Piano2 8'                 0 (+05)
2   A72         Pad Piano                 0
3   A12         Pad Piano                 0 (-05)
4   B80 (OFF)   Start Orch (Timbre OFF)   0
5   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0
6   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0
7   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0
8   A00 (OFF)   Aeroglide  (Timbre OFF)   0


I haven't checked beyond the above. If I had to "guess", the phantom programs and other problems might be related to incorrect 7-bit/8-bit conversion. I'll check further if an updated version of the program is made available that resolves what I found so far.


Thanks for this analysis.

Instead of the Timbre OFF, the Sta(tus) is shown as Off. On later synths the program name is still shown on the synth, even if the status is Off, but it looks like it's not the case for the T3. I don't know if I should change this; since the status is already showing if a timbre is on o r off.

About the Transpose, I really see zero's here and it looks like it is implemented. Are you sure it has not been changed, since it would sound very strange to have a piano sound being tranposed with +2/-2 in PianoHaven, and the +5/-5 in Jazz Band also seems very strange.

In C03 (Ladies) I see tranposes of 0 and 12 which seem very convincing to me ... maybe you changed these transposes yourself maybe? Can you otherwise send your .syx file to me to check for differences?
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
Thanks for this analysis.

Instead of the Timbre OFF, the Sta(tus) is shown as Off. On later synths the program name is still shown on the synth, even if the status is Off, but it looks like it's not the case for the T3. I don't know if I should change this; since the status is already showing if a timbre is on o r off.

OK, I got out a hex editor and took a look at the t2t3pl.SYX file (as downloaded from Korg UK). Interestingly, for C00(CosmicRain), Timbres 5 through 8 have a value of "00" in the file, which is supposed to be "OFF" as per the Korg MIDI documentation. However, the unused Timbres in C01(PianoHaven) and C02(Jazz Band) are neither "00"(OFF) nor "01"(A01), but 64hex=100decimal, which is B00.

Timbre #2 in C00(CosmicRain), which is turned ON, should be B00(One World), not A00(Aeroglide) - the file has a value for it of 64h.


michelkeijzers wrote:
About the Transpose, I really see zero's here and it looks like it is implemented. Are you sure it has not been changed, since it would sound very strange to have a piano sound being tranposed with +2/-2 in PianoHaven, and the +5/-5 in Jazz Band also seems very strange.

In C03 (Ladies) I see tranposes of 0 and 12 which seem very convincing to me ... maybe you changed these transposes yourself maybe? Can you otherwise send your .syx file to me to check for differences?

The file I'm using is the one available from Korg UK at:
http://www.korg.co.uk/SUPPORT/downloads/tseries_dl.php
I loaded it to my T3 and did not edit anything.

You are correct about the numbers I gave not being the transposes. (Sorry about any confusion that might have caused.) I didn't change them, but the numbers I gave were for Detune (in cents). That parameter immediately follows Transpose in the MIDI data - perhaps you could add it as a column in the Combi window after "Trans".
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

I can see your point about PCG Tools showing the Program rather than "OFF", such as "B80" for Timbre #4 in C02(Jazz Band). Using a hex editor on t2t3pl.SYX, I changed Combi TIMBRE ON OFF from OFF to ON (high nibble of the byte from 1 to 0) in several places. I then sent the edited file to my T3. As would be expected, the T3 indicated "B80" for C02 Timbre 4.

In addition, the T3 indicates B00 (not A00) for the unused Timbres in C01(PianoHaven) and C02(Jazz Band), as I anticipated. For accuracy, PCG Tools should probably also do so.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
I can see your point about PCG Tools showing the Program rather than "OFF", such as "B80" for Timbre #4 in C02(Jazz Band). Using a hex editor on t2t3pl.SYX, I changed Combi TIMBRE ON OFF from OFF to ON (high nibble of the byte from 1 to 0) in several places. I then sent the edited file to my T3. As would be expected, the T3 indicated "B80" for C02 Timbre 4.

In addition, the T3 indicates B00 (not A00) for the unused Timbres in C01(PianoHaven) and C02(Jazz Band), as I anticipated. For accuracy, PCG Tools should probably also do so.


I will combine the analysis of both posts above:

- About detune: I can indeed add it and I think it is quite valuable ... I need to do it for every supported synth, so it takes a bit of time. I will probably do it in the next version; otherwise it will be put on the wish list.

About the program IDs. You are right it's currently wrongly implemented for the T series.

However, according to the documentation, 64 should be A99.

The documentation writes (see page 147):
Combination parameters
...
Timbre 1 parameter:
36 Program No. 00:OFF, 01~C8:A00~B99

Meaning 01 is A00, 64 is A99, 65 is B00 and C8 is B99.

However, that is not according to what you see on your T synth. However, the current PCG Tools implementation is also wrong.

Also, there is a specific bit for a timbre on, off:

46: Timbre On, Off bit4 =0:ON =1:Off
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
I will combine the analysis of both posts above:

- About detune: I can indeed add it and I think it is quite valuable ... I need to do it for every supported synth, so it takes a bit of time. I will probably do it in the next version; otherwise it will be put on the wish list.

OK.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
About the program IDs. You are right it's currently wrongly implemented for the T series.

However, according to the documentation, 64 should be A99.

The documentation writes (see page 147):
Combination parameters
...
Timbre 1 parameter:
36 Program No. 00:OFF, 01~C8:A00~B99

Meaning 01 is A00, 64 is A99, 65 is B00 and C8 is B99.

However, that is not according to what you see on your T synth. However, the current PCG Tools implementation is also wrong.

This is starting to make more sense. It seems that the "COMBINATION PARAMETERS (TABLE 2)" information for byte 36 is incorrect. I edited Timbre ON OFF for C00(CosmicRain) Timbre 3, so that it is ON. That Timbre is set at "00" in the t2t3pl.SYX file, and when I sent the edited file to my T3, it sees C00 Timbre 3 as A00 Aeroglide, not "OFF". So the actual range for Programs is 00~C7, corresponding to A00~B99, and that makes 64h B00. I also verified that when the T3 is sent C7, it sees B99. Contrary to what the documentation says, there is no "OFF" value. So PCG Tools is actually correct when it indicates A00 for data "00", although incorrect for "64". (By the way, I have yet to work with MIDI documentation that didn't have errors.)

If you do send C8, something very "interesting" happens. The T3 sees the Timbre/Program in the Combi as "C00" - yes, Combi 00, a Combi in a Combi. It can be played, but if you press cursor keys, etc. (in an effort to further determine what's happening), the T3 locks up in some strange modes with various buttons lit. Apparently Korg didn't lock out illegal values for the parameters, and things can get very confused.

I hope that helps.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
Also, there is a specific bit for a timbre on, off:

46: Timbre On, Off bit4 =0:ON =1:Off

Yes, bit 4 is the high nibble of the byte I referred to before. Bits 0~3 are for the MIDI channel, with channel 1 selected when all of those bits are low. Therefore, when that byte is "10", MIDI channel 1 is selected and Timbre is OFF. By changing the byte to "00", the Timbre is turned ON, which is what I did.

Of course, it's byte 46 only for Timbre 1 - it's 57 for Timbre 2, 68 for Timbre 3, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

Curiosity got the better of me, so I looked at the MIDI documentation for the M1. If you have the M1 Owner's Manual, see the COMBINATION PARAMETER table on page 128. The first entry for Timbre 1 is:
| 36 | PROGRAM NO. | 00~C7 : *12 |

The "00~C7" at this point perhaps isn't surprising. However, the additional information at *12 (concerning Multis) is enlightening - keeping in mind that while the T-series models have two banks of Progs and one of Combis, the M1 has only one bank of each.
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
I will combine the analysis of both posts above:

- About detune: I can indeed add it and I think it is quite valuable ... I need to do it for every supported synth, so it takes a bit of time. I will probably do it in the next version; otherwise it will be put on the wish list.

OK.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
About the program IDs. You are right it's currently wrongly implemented for the T series.

However, according to the documentation, 64 should be A99.

The documentation writes (see page 147):
Combination parameters
...
Timbre 1 parameter:
36 Program No. 00:OFF, 01~C8:A00~B99

Meaning 01 is A00, 64 is A99, 65 is B00 and C8 is B99.

However, that is not according to what you see on your T synth. However, the current PCG Tools implementation is also wrong.

This is starting to make more sense. It seems that the "COMBINATION PARAMETERS (TABLE 2)" information for byte 36 is incorrect. I edited Timbre ON OFF for C00(CosmicRain) Timbre 3, so that it is ON. That Timbre is set at "00" in the t2t3pl.SYX file, and when I sent the edited file to my T3, it sees C00 Timbre 3 as A00 Aeroglide, not "OFF". So the actual range for Programs is 00~C7, corresponding to A00~B99, and that makes 64h B00. I also verified that when the T3 is sent C7, it sees B99. Contrary to what the documentation says, there is no "OFF" value. So PCG Tools is actually correct when it indicates A00 for data "00", although incorrect for "64". (By the way, I have yet to work with MIDI documentation that didn't have errors.)

If you do send C8, something very "interesting" happens. The T3 sees the Timbre/Program in the Combi as "C00" - yes, Combi 00, a Combi in a Combi. It can be played, but if you press cursor keys, etc. (in an effort to further determine what's happening), the T3 locks up in some strange modes with various buttons lit. Apparently Korg didn't lock out illegal values for the parameters, and things can get very confused.

I hope that helps.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
Also, there is a specific bit for a timbre on, off:

46: Timbre On, Off bit4 =0:ON =1:Off

Yes, bit 4 is the high nibble of the byte I referred to before. Bits 0~3 are for the MIDI channel, with channel 1 selected when all of those bits are low. Therefore, when that byte is "10", MIDI channel 1 is selected and Timbre is OFF. By changing the byte to "00", the Timbre is turned ON, which is what I did.

Of course, it's byte 46 only for Timbre 1 - it's 57 for Timbre 2, 68 for Timbre 3, etc.


I already thought it would be something like this ... I have most manuals (in PDF format) and indeed it looks more intuitive that values for the T3 starts with 0, since there is a specific bit for being a timbre On/Off.

I'm not going to take into account illegal values (my app will not change these anyway), so I will implement the T3 values as: 0-63 as bank A, 64-127 as bank B.

In fact, currently implemented is a difference between the Multi type but I will remove this (so the definitive algorithm is the simple paragraph above).

Thank you very much for sorting all this out.
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
I already thought it would be something like this ... I have most manuals (in PDF format) and indeed it looks more intuitive that values for the T3 starts with 0, since there is a specific bit for being a timbre On/Off.

It does make more sense that way.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
I'm not going to take into account illegal values (my app will not change these anyway), so I will implement the T3 values as: 0-63 as bank A, 64-127 as bank B.

In fact, currently implemented is a difference between the Multi type but I will remove this (so the definitive algorithm is the simple paragraph above).

Yes, I only mentioned what sending C8 did in order to emphasize that it wasn't a legitimate value.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
Thank you very much for sorting all this out.

You're welcome - I think PCG Tools is useful, so I'm glad to help.

There's something else that I noticed. With T-series files, the "OSC Mode" and "OSC Sel" columns are empty in the Combi window. In the PROGRAM PARAMETERS, byte 10 is Oscillator Mode. Values 0, 1, 2 correspond respectively to Single, Double, or Drums, which could be directly used in the OSC Mode column. Single is just Osc 1, Double is Both OSC 1 and 2, so that could be applied to the OSC Sel column. (Just some thoughts for the next version or wish list. Smile  )
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
I already thought it would be something like this ... I have most manuals (in PDF format) and indeed it looks more intuitive that values for the T3 starts with 0, since there is a specific bit for being a timbre On/Off.

It does make more sense that way.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
I'm not going to take into account illegal values (my app will not change these anyway), so I will implement the T3 values as: 0-63 as bank A, 64-127 as bank B.

In fact, currently implemented is a difference between the Multi type but I will remove this (so the definitive algorithm is the simple paragraph above).

Yes, I only mentioned what sending C8 did in order to emphasize that it wasn't a legitimate value.

 
michelkeijzers wrote:
Thank you very much for sorting all this out.

You're welcome - I think PCG Tools is useful, so I'm glad to help.

There's something else that I noticed. With T-series files, the "OSC Mode" and "OSC Sel" columns are empty in the Combi window. In the PROGRAM PARAMETERS, byte 10 is Oscillator Mode. Values 0, 1, 2 correspond respectively to Single, Double, or Drums, which could be directly used in the OSC Mode column. Single is just Osc 1, Double is Both OSC 1 and 2, so that could be applied to the OSC Sel column. (Just some thoughts for the next version or wish list. Smile  )



In my development version I already changed to see 'Timbre Off' (only for T series). Maybe I will add it later to others too.

About the OSC Mode/Sel: if it is really there (I cannot check now), I should add it and it will probably be quite simple to add it so it will be on the next version (not needed to be on the wish list). The wish list is more for additions that take a bit more time or with low priority, but since this functionality is already available for other models, it SHOULD be available also for the T series. I will look into it but don't have much time the coming period.
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

michelkeijzers wrote:
About the OSC Mode/Sel: if it is really there (I cannot check now), I should add it and it will probably be quite simple to add it so it will be on the next version (not needed to be on the wish list). The wish list is more for additions that take a bit more time or with low priority, but since this functionality is already available for other models, it SHOULD be available also for the T series. I will look into it but don't have much time the coming period.

It's really there, and it's easy to find. It's the byte immediately after the Program Name's 10th character/space. For A00(Aeroglide), it's "01", a double, meaning both OSC1 and OSC 2 are active. For A01(Piano 16'), it's "00", a single, only Osc 1 is active.

Just to make sure, I exchanged the values for those two Progs in the SYX file, sent the edited file to the T3, and it then sees Aeroglide as a single and Piano 16' as a double.
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
About the OSC Mode/Sel: if it is really there (I cannot check now), I should add it and it will probably be quite simple to add it so it will be on the next version (not needed to be on the wish list). The wish list is more for additions that take a bit more time or with low priority, but since this functionality is already available for other models, it SHOULD be available also for the T series. I will look into it but don't have much time the coming period.

It's really there, and it's easy to find. It's the byte immediately after the Program Name's 10th character/space. For A00(Aeroglide), it's "01", a double, meaning both OSC1 and OSC 2 are active. For A01(Piano 16'), it's "00", a single, only Osc 1 is active.

Just to make sure, I exchanged the values for those two Progs in the SYX file, sent the edited file to the T3, and it then sees Aeroglide as a single and Piano 16' as a double.


Thanks for checking. I will take a look at it as soon as possible, but it seems it should have been added by me in the first place.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: PCG Tools for Korg M1 series, M3, 01/W series, T series, Reply with quote

T3owner wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
About the OSC Mode/Sel: if it is really there (I cannot check now), I should add it and it will probably be quite simple to add it so it will be on the next version (not needed to be on the wish list). The wish list is more for additions that take a bit more time or with low priority, but since this functionality is already available for other models, it SHOULD be available also for the T series. I will look into it but don't have much time the coming period.

It's really there, and it's easy to find. It's the byte immediately after the Program Name's 10th character/space. For A00(Aeroglide), it's "01", a double, meaning both OSC1 and OSC 2 are active. For A01(Piano 16'), it's "00", a single, only Osc 1 is active.

Just to make sure, I exchanged the values for those two Progs in the SYX file, sent the edited file to the T3, and it then sees Aeroglide as a single and Piano 16' as a double.


I see some issue in this ... I will try to contact you via email/pm for a discussion regarding this.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCG Tools 2.3.0

Dear all,

A new version of PCG Tools has been released, with the following changes:
- Polish language added, thanks to DamianoMusic.
- Added volume to set list slots.
- Redesigned and improved various dialogs.
- Various small improvements and bug fixes

In detail:

Code:

2.3.0      10-Aug-2014 
Language: Polish language added, thanks to DamianoMusic.
                        Improv  : Added volume to edit set list slot dialog (Kronos only).
                        Improv  : Added volume column to set lists in PCG window (Kronos only).
                        Improv  : Dynamically resizing of edit program, combi and set list slot dialogs.
                        Improv  : Redesigned splash screen and about window.
                        Bug Fix : Prevented changed program/combi references when pasting inside same file.
                        Bug Fix : Prevented crash when selecting multiple banks with only one filled item.
                        Bug Fix : One label not translated in the Edit Single Set List Slot dialog.
                        Bug Fix : Fixed several texts in different languages (especially Greek).
                        Bug Fix : Added several translators in some translations (sorry Umut Erhan, Jim Dijkstra, Syntey).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear PCG Tools users,

A new version of PCG Tools is released (version 2.5.0).

The most important items are:
- Program reference changer, useful for changing references to multiple programs from combis (or set list slots). I will add later in the KorgForums site and facebook more information how to use this feature.
- Automatic pasting of programs used by combis/set list slots with programs having a similar name but not mandatory to be equal.
- Added color/transpose controls for editing set list slots (Kronos only).
- Various bug fixes (like copy/pasting set list slots for Kronos.

The application can be downloaded for free at http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl

Below is a complete list of changes.

Kind regards,

Michel Keijzers, developer of PCG Tools

Code:

=============================================================================================
Version : 2.5.0
Date    : 24-Jan-2015
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feature : Program reference changer (to change references in combis/set lists to programs).
Improv  : Possibility to treat equal/like-named patches as duplicates while copy/pasting.
Improv  : For Kronos set list slot editor: Added color/transpose controls.
Bug Fix : For Kronos set list slot editor: Fixed XS/S mismatch for font size.
Bug Fix : Fixed copy/pasting set list slots (Kronos only).
Bug Fix : Fixed double clicking a PCG file to start up PCG Tools.
Bug Fix : Prevented crash when loading Kronos files with set lists, without combis.
Removed : Command Line window.
Language: Italian language added, thanks to Enrico Puglisi.
Language: Many greek texts improved, thanks to Giorgios (new translator) and Jim Dijkstra.
Language: Corrected/translated (missing) language texts (thanks to various translators).
Links   : Completely redesigned all external links windows.
Links   : Added contributors window, for thanking testers, information/idea providers etc.
Links   : Added Timo Lill, as translator for German (amongst others) and added various URLs.
Donators: Added Kevin Nolan and added various URLs of donators.

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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl
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Lith



Joined: 10 Feb 2015
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey thanks so much for all of the work you have done on this. Amazing!
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