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Calibration Problems Question/Hypothesis
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Calibration Problems Question/Hypothesis Reply with quote

So, all this time of agonizing over my Roland V-Synth XT's summertime screen condensation problems, i haven't paid enough agony toward my Korg M3m. Yesterday, i spent hours dealing with touch panel calibration and response issues. During which, i noticed:

Even when the screen would not recognize touches on the bottom-right inch worth of periphery (a backwards L-shaped area), when set to X/Y mode, it responded to touch just fine, everywhere! If there was a problem with the resistive films, why would the X/Y mode seem to respond just fine but NOT the calibration?

This tells me that the problem is not the touch panel overlay, or not entirely. Clearly that's working. If X/Y mode uses the raw data from the panel as a controller, then why can't the calibration between touch and LCD display have just as easy a time of it? Maybe it's a software problem that cannot deal with hardware drift??

Anyone want to weigh in on this?

By the way, i updated to 2.0.5 just in case the mention of "calibration data" in the changes has anything to do with this problem. i saw no immediate resolution, and maybe actually created a problem, until i got it to finally respond to the lower right corner in calibration mode. i have yet to try today.

As for all the angle stuff... i normally store it flat and haven't had trouble that a re-calibration couldn't fix. i normally used it in an upright position. Over the last year, the need to calibrate became more and more frequent until yesterday it was fine and then suddenly useless for a few hours. The way it has been stored, as of the last month or two, was at an angle, on its right end. Basically, i have to keep swapping my workspace around because i don't have enough desk space for everything. So i sat it down to free up desk space, leaving it on end, in a relatively safe spot. i've never done that before, and it preceded the problems i had with the touch responsiveness yesterday.

i checked the tiny, four-line ribbon that connects the touch screen to the small interface board in the center, behind the LCD's own circuitry (or "above" when viewed from the open back). This is normally hidden under the main CPU boards (when seen from the open back). This ribbon seemed fine, though it showed where the contacts were crimped by the socket, and cleaning the contacts had no discernible effect at all.

i am unwilling to pull the thing apart the rest of the way to get at the LCD, or even the touch panel itself. This is the most unserviceable piece of hardware i've ever opened up. Frelling EVERYTHING has to come out of there to get at the touch panel. You'd think that controls and displays would be considered important to get at for service by the manufacturer...
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foxy
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Joined: 20 May 2007
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Location: Down the Pub, Surrey, England

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just changed my touch screen. Working slowly and with care it took less than two hours. If you've stripped it enough to check the touch screen ribbon cable you're well on the way to finishing the job.
It's simpler if you buy the touch screen on ebay from the person in the USA who includes the double sided adhesive and a razor blade. I didn't!
You've no doubt googled "korg m3 touch screen replacement". Watch the video first (have patience at the start) to get the general idea and then use the pdf you''d have found a couple of listings lower.
The pdf is excellent and I offer my compliments and thanks to the author.. There are just a few points I would emphasize or clarify;
Use a good quality Phillips screwdriver.
Buy yourself an earthing strap and use it
Carefully remove the ribbon cables before you try to remove the boards.
To remove the LCD assembly it's necessary to lift it from the locating pegs whilst you slide it out. This caught me out for a minute.
Having watched the video practical, follow the pdf for separating the touch screen from the LCD.
Oh, and if you have the Radias EXB fitted, disconnect the ribbon cable before removing the bottom panel.
As a keyboard player you must be dexterous and unless you have bunches of bananas at the end of your arms you can do this.
Two final bits of advice:- work slowly with the pdf displayed beside you and if you feel even minimal resistance whilst trying to refit a screw you're about to cross thread it. Back of and find the point where the thread engages smoothly and easily.
Your heart will be in your mouth when you switch back on but if you've slowly worked with care you will experience relief, joy and satisfaction!
Not to mention a fully operational M3
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dysamoria
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Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: Hell, PA, The Corporate States of America

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't afford the money for the touch panel replacement, nor the stress in fully disassembling my M3m. The length i went to was already frustrating, and there's a lot more to disassemble to get the screen out. Plus, how do we know the replacements wont suffer the same problem in time? My Zodiac (Palm OS device) has a resistive touch screen surface and has never had this kind of problem. Why do the Korg M3 and Roland V-Synth XT units have issues? Is there a compatible capacitive touch panel replacement available that could be used instead of putting another resistive touch panel in?

As for dexterity... i have issues there. Fine motor skills and shaking issues. i'm not a true player of anything. i am comfortable on keys, but i'm no player.

My M3 currently has been on for several hours. The touch function was perfectly fine for about 20 minutes. There's no response at all now. Even X-Y Mode shows no reactivity (unlike my last experience). The unit wasn't setting perfectly flat, it was at the lower angle with the feet on the back. This has to be humidity. My V-Synth XT gets bubbles under the resistive screen film. Once it's been on for an hour, the heat dissipates it and it's okay to use. In summer, it's the worst. Winters are fine. But the Korg M3m never had a problem till this year and i see no bubble under the touch film.

EDIT: The X-Y Mode just started reacting. i guess it's drying out and will be usable in another hour or so.... Am i the only one that experiences this? Everyone talks about gravity issues and i think that's not it. At least, not with mine.

EDIT: Five minutes later, it works just fine again. i spent some time massaging the touch surface while in X-Y Mode and all is fine. No need to calibrate either. i'm almost certain this is moisture related.
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh. It's not working again.
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HardSync
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry your screen is failing to work. The problems have absolutely nothing to do with gravity (that guy's theory was completely wrong, to put it kindly). Your screen is failing intermittently due to an electrical contact issue within the touch panel overlay, which could be exacerbated as the unit warms up, since heat causes things to expand. It will continue to get worse over time. Unfortunately, you are going to need to replace the touch panel or the entire screen assembly with touch panel already installed.

Repair costs always suck, but ultimately are worth it when you get your board back in working order.

I do, however, very much appreciate the usage of Farscape curses in your first post.
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardSync wrote:
Your screen is failing intermittently due to an electrical contact issue within the touch panel overlay, which could be exacerbated as the unit warms up, since heat causes things to expand. It will continue to get worse over time.


Can you describe the electrical contact issue in more detail? Is this a design flaw of the entire assembly that will strike again after repaired, or a defective part that will not fail this way a second time?
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HardSync
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's likely not a design flaw. It's more likely a manufacturing process issue or an assembly flaw -- it could be any number of issues, or the touch panel was somehow damaged (not saying you damaged it). I couldn't possibly comment as to whether a replacement would suffer the the same issues. Is that possible? Yes. But then it's possible the replacement wouldn't have any problems for a long, long time. Sorry that I can't be of any more help.
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it certainly was never damaged. When not in use, i always keep a square piece of thick spongy foam in front of the panel to protect it from impact, in case anything fell over it (however unlikely).

The only thing that has been done to this unit is that it has dealt with hot summers. But it never cared about that, unlike my V-Synth XT (which hates the summer, AC or no AC). i've always run a window AC in the studio to keep the equipment safe. Only a few days missed AC and i never ran the unit during hot temps.

i've barely even used this synth, so use/abuse has nothing to do with it. Time and manufacturing/parts are the only things that seem to make sense. It seems to me that people who have used their M3 far longer and more continuously than myself only ran into the problem before me by a couple years. Are there people who never have this problem at all?

i'm poor. i can afford the $25 for a touch panel, though. i just really do NOT want to do the work. My hands suck. But i'm too poor to pay someone. i'm about to pay for my T.C. Electronic Fireworx to be repaired (i could have bought the power supply, but not done the soldering). i read the instructions another user posted and the disassembly is considerable. Especially with cutting the tape from the old touch panel off, removing old and applying new double-sided sticky tape, aligning it just right... i'm so sick of being a tech. i did that with computers for decades.
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the theory that the touch panel parts are separating, leaving the wires not conducting?

See this guy fix a panel by applying heat and pressure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noVnvDXWrj8

My touch panel has been working consistently for a few minutes after applying firm, but not harsh, pressure to the far edges. Then again, the temperature in the room has also gone down a little...

This is so unscientific... Razz
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Gargamel314
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this sounds exactly like what happened to me.

My touch screen started acting wonky over the spring and summer. The screen calibration would be off sometimes when I would move my M3-61. I'd recalibrate, and it would be fine.

I brought my M3 into my classroom about a week and a half ago, and the WHOLE TOUCHSCREEN was unresponsive. That's the first time it had done that. I couldn't do anything except play progs and combi's, but for some reason, XY mode seemed to still work. I left the unit on for a couple hours, with no help. Finally, cleaning the screen with a clorox wipe brought the whole screen to life again.

The next day, the screen partially worked, and within minutes of turning the unit on, the whole screen was unresponsive again. Cleaning the screen did not work at all.

I do find it a little fishy that people's touch screens are starting to go all around the same time.

I found this for $30, and it arrived within 2 days, with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Korg-M3-Touch-Panel-Touch-Screen-For-LCD-/161469425382?

I watched these two videos which were EXTREMELY helpful throughout the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBp4rqR09xI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0ytBEDxpPs

It was more involved than I would have liked. It was a little like doing surgery, but there was no soldering involved, and the directions were pretty good (except in the directions there's one step that is incomplete... but it was okay). It took me about an hour and a half.

Caveats before you perform this procedure:
1 - find a pillow to put your M3M upside-down on so nothing will get damaged.
2 - wash your hands before you do this,
3 - you will need:
- a phillips screw-driver
- a pair of needle-nose pliers to help pry off connectors.
- a tiny, tiny flathead screwdriver (to help loosen connectors)
- a small flashlight is very helpful
- a razor blade to cut through the old double-sided tape holding the touch panel against the LCD screen.
- a pin or a permanent marker to mark where the old touch panel was.
4 - MAKE SURE you know which side of the touch panel is the top! I had to do this process twice because even though I was sure which side was the top, I was wrong and put it in wrong.
5 - you might as well also buy a 1 or 2 GB SD card (non-SDHC) so you can put all the KEP files on it and it will shorten your loading time. It's not necessary, but while you have the board opened up.

The new touch screen works great, but I do notice it doesn't always register my touches (the old one didn't either). I may buy another touch panel just in case this one goes. I was disheartened that this one only lasted 5 years, considering Korg says it's good for like 2 million touches.

The kit also does include a CR-2032 battery, so you can change the battery now instead of later. It was a good deal. It probably would have taken me just as long to drive the keyboard to a authorized service location, and it would have probably cost me an extra $100.

Total money spent: $30.00
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This confusing weirdness just doesn't stop.

My screen is fine right now. I powered it on yesterday, calibrated first try, and it was fine all day. Today I didn't even have to calibrate.

Why? What has changed???

Difference between now and the previous time (when I posted this thread): unit had been stored on end for months. From the time of posting the thread, to yesterday, it has been setting at the relaxed angle of the installed tabletop feet (the slight incline, mostly level). Weather isn't much different, but maybe drier.

WTH??

I'm happy it's working. I've been using it for much of the day without a single issue at all. But why is this the case? Does it really matter how it lays for weeks at a time??
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And still no problems with it. Used it quite a while the last two days. [shrug]
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My touch screen digitizer finally stopped working at all some months ago. i have replaced it with one bought from "vantripper" on eBay and i didn't even have to calibrate it on the first power-on (though i did calibrate it later, just to be sure). It behaves a little differently (dragging is not so easy), but i'm happy to have control again.

How long do these replacements last? Should i expect to have to replace the new one in a few years? The replacement part looked slightly different from the original, so can i presume it wont just die in a few years like the Korg original part?

The work wasn't particularly strenuous, but it was time consuming and annoying. My Roland V-Synth XT gets fussy after a while of not using it, but the screen still returns to complete normalcy after letting it warm up a while. Why is the Korg part so different?
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Gargamel314
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My screen never went out again after replacing it, but I had a couple gigs where the M3 would not finish booting this summer. I decided to see it as an opportunity to buy a Kronos. Hopefully THAT touch screen will last longer!
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dysamoria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gargamel314 wrote:
My screen never went out again after replacing it, but I had a couple gigs where the M3 would not finish booting this summer. I decided to see it as an opportunity to buy a Kronos. Hopefully THAT touch screen will last longer!


Good to know your screen didn't go bad again.

At what point did your M3 halt booting? Error messages? Have you tried to replace the SD card the OS loads from?
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