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Still struggling mightily with file management....
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DoubleM
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Yes it also applies to EXs. Dan has written down the exact steps necessary.
From his post:
Quote:

To create a stripped-down version of CoverBand.KSC:
1. Save any data you’ve created in Sampling Mode. (The next step will erase all Sampling Mode data.)
2. Load CoverBand_UserBank.KSC, using the Clear All option.
3. On the Global Sample Management page, set the Bank to CoverBand.KSC, and delete any unwanted Multisamples or Drumsamples.
4. Save a new KSC with a different name (such as CoverBandStripped.KSC), with Include set to “Links to EXs and User Sample Banks.”


Ok, does that mean I have to review every single program which multisample is used and then delete all those step by step I don´t need?
Is there no way to pick only those programs I want and only load their multisamples?
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can also load multisamples selectively. That too is described exactly in Dan's post.
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DoubleM
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks Sander for the clarification. Razz
This is going to be a lot of work...
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phinnin wrote:
Epiphany! Thanks Dan. I was making the error of not clearing the RAM before making saves which lead to giant ksc files.



I probably made the same mistake. But my fear of the "Clear all" command is that I will loose all the samples that come with the other EXs.

How to avoid that?
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media-igor
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That the Dan wrote - everything is in the documentation of Kronos. I have several times raised the topic of that apparently there is an error in the operating system KRONOS. It often happens that combining several KSC (as described by Dan and documentation) does not work correctly! Sometimes everything works as it should. All do the same. Conformity to the law that is why there is a mistake - I have not understood!
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Peas&Carrots
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan for the examples and instructions - Sterling work as always.

I do happen to have a suggestion...

Kronos is primarily a musical instrument and is mostly sold to musicians. Kronos is also essentially a computer inside BUT a large number of users are not I.T. nerds and find all this file management stuff rather difficult. I'm basing this observation on the large number of related posts. There are too many ways to mess things up - a muddle of "what if I do that but not this" and "do I need to move this to make sure the other works" yadi yada, blah blah blah.

When I've posted on here before, the level of knowledge expected of users appears to be high and I see from other posts that we are sometimes found wanting - many posts start with "forgive my ignorance" or "I'm new to this but". People just want stuff to work - especially these days.

Sooooo

Could your Sample Banks instructions form the basis of a Sample Management Assistant within Kronos? By selecting the SMA users would be asked a series of questions/options about what they wish to accomplish and be guided through the process with the relevant commands and saves being executed along the way?

Would make the process a WHOLE lot easier for most. The current processes should of course remain for the more advanced users?

What do you think Question
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

media-igor wrote:
That the Dan wrote - everything is in the documentation of Kronos.


I don't agree. I cannot find everything in de manual. A simple question: how do I make a full backup, with all my self made samples, to another Kronos in case I have to rent one on the other side of the ocean, is not answered.

On fora many people say "save all" will do the trick. Including Qui Robinez, who otherwise makes excellent tutorials. But this is simply not true in all cases. Perhaps the description in the manual is not complete; perhaps there is a bug, I don't know. But it is not true.

For me, this whole issue is nearly becoming a make or break to step over to Clavia or Kurzweil. As a semi-professional, I need reliability and I was very close to taking a USB with me on a gig to rent another Kronos, which I thought was a solid decision. Just in time I found it doesn't work this way with sample management - this could have been a disaster for my band.

Sorry, with all the appreciation I have for the Kronos, I just think Korg is not responding professionally by ingnoring complaints by it's clients for this major sample management problem with the Kronos and keeps saying "read the manual".
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Last edited by laandodeman on Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:17 am; edited 3 times in total
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peas&Carrots wrote:
Thanks Dan for the examples and instructions - Sterling work as always.

I do happen to have a suggestion...

Kronos is primarily a musical instrument and is mostly sold to musicians. Kronos is also essentially a computer inside BUT a large number of users are not I.T. nerds and find all this file management stuff rather difficult. I'm basing this observation on the large number of related posts. There are too many ways to mess things up - a muddle of "what if I do that but not this" and "do I need to move this to make sure the other works" yadi yada, blah blah blah.

When I've posted on here before, the level of knowledge expected of users appears to be high and I see from other posts that we are sometimes found wanting - many posts start with "forgive my ignorance" or "I'm new to this but". People just want stuff to work - especially these days.

Sooooo

Could your Sample Banks instructions form the basis of a Sample Management Assistant within Kronos? By selecting the SMA users would be asked a series of questions/options about what they wish to accomplish and be guided through the process with the relevant commands and saves being executed along the way?

Would make the process a WHOLE lot easier for most. The current processes should of course remain for the more advanced users?

What do you think Question


Well said and a good suggestion.
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coyote144
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very, very good suggestion. File management is not clear at all, even for advanced users. Korg should help.
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media-igor
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laandodeman wrote:
media-igor wrote:
That the Dan wrote - everything is in the documentation of Kronos.


I don't agree. I cannot find everything in de manual. A simple question: how do I make a full backup, with all my self made samples, to another Kronos in case I have to rent one on the other side of the ocean, is not answered.

On fora many people say "save all" will do the trick. Including Qui Robinez, who otherwise makes excellent tutorials. But this is simply not true in all cases. Perhaps the description in the manual is not complete; perhaps there is a bug, I don't know. But it is not true.

For me, this whole issue is nearly becoming a make or break to step over to Clavia or Kurzweil. As a semi-professional, I need reliability and I was very close to taking a USB with me on a gig to rent another Kronos, which I thought was a solid decision. Just in time I found it doesn't work this way with sample management - this could have been a disaster for my band.

Sorry, with all the appreciation I have for the Kronos, I just think Korg is not responding professionally by ingnoring complaints by it's clients for this major sample management problem with the Kronos and keeps saying "read the manual".


See pp. 162-165 KRONOS_Op_Guide_E9.

Concerning - how do I make a full backup, with all my self made samples. I know only one way (I use it for 2 years).
I already wrote about it here.

1. Create a folder on the HDD, where you will put all your samples for streaming audio.
2. "Save all" (get a folder containing a 2 folder and 5 files (*.KGE, *.KSC, *_Userbank.KSC, *.PCG, *.SNG)
3. Move it all to another KRONOS

At me it is working.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laandodeman wrote:
On fora many people say "save all" will do the trick. Including Qui Robinez, who otherwise makes excellent tutorials. But this is simply not true in all cases. Perhaps the description in the manual is not complete; perhaps there is a bug, I don't know. But it is not true.


maybe the misunderstanding lies in the terminology: Save All.
if you want to save everything on your kronos, for instance because you want to transfer your sounds to another kronos, then 'save all' is not enough!

Save all, saves everything that is in memory on the kronos. So the Programs, drumtracks, KARMA GEs, combis and most importantly, every sample that is loaded in memory.
Now here lies the biggest problem with understanding what it saves. It doesn't save all samples from the sound libraries that are loaded with the virtual memory setting in the global KSC Autoload section. These aren't loaded completely in the kronos memory. So if you use Save All, you will have the programs that reference those samples, but as soon as you transfer your save all file to a different kronos, all those programs won't work anymore if those Virtual Memory KSC files aren't installed and loaded on the other kronos.

If you want to do this, then you have to manually install the KSC files and load them again on the other kronos (most of the factory sound libraries will probably work, but all other custom add ons KSC sound libraries that you bought in the kronos shop will not work on a different kronos.

So basically you only have to remember two things:
- SAVE ALL doesn't save the Samples which are loaded with the virtual memory flag set (which you can check in the global KSC autoload screen)
- SAVE ALL, with samples loaded in memory, will work on other kronos (or your own) as long as they are created by yourself or by others that do not need the authorisation key from KORG. If you bought a sound set from korg with samples than even load those in memory (directly) and then use the SAVE ALL Menu function, then it won't work on an other kronos, because you don't have an authorisation key. If you bought the sample sound set also for the other kronos, then it will work but probably you will have to use the find samples option once after loading your save all sound set.


So as long as you are using the SAVE ALL menu function on your own kronos and DON'T DELETE samples from other sound sets that you use from the SSD, then it will always work when you restore your backup file that you made with the save all function.


laandodeman wrote:

I don't agree. I cannot find everything in de manual. A simple question: how do I make a full backup, with all my self made samples, to another Kronos in case I have to rent one on the other side of the ocean, is not answered.

This is really easy to do, as long as you have loaded your own samples in memory, so don't create a save all backup where your self made sample libary is referenced in the KSC autoload screen with the virtual memory setting.

So the steps for creating a custom sound set with your library are:
- Load your own sample set with the option: Clear ALL (or Append all if you have also other samples that you want to transfer in memory)
- now you will have a half non working kronos (lots of sounds won't behave like you are used to, but that's normal, you are creating now a backup for your own sound set.
- For instance, i have a KSC file called VIRUSTI which contains my VIRUS TI sounds that i use on the kronos.
- i load it in the sample memory with the option CLEAR ALL. Now i can add extra samples to that library or create a virus TI package to load on other kronos synths.
- In your case you want to create a full backup, so go to the disk menu and create a directory called BACKUP, and in that directory create a directory called: MYBACKUP
- now go the save tab and select SAVE ALL
- Select the folder MYBACKUP and give your backup a name like for instance VIRUSTIBCK
- In the MYBACKUP folder will now be created the VIRUSTIBCK folder with the samples, and the PCG file that you can load on other kronos synths.
- Copy the MYBACKUP folder to an usb stick and copy that back to another kronos on the SSD of that other kronos.
- add your KSC sample set in the KSC AUTOLOAD of that other kronos with the option Virtual by adding that VIRUSTIBCK.KSC file in the autoload screen.
- load your PCG FILE with your complete backup, and all your sounds including your own samples will work now.

But even better would be if you just create the VIRUSTI.KSC sample package by using the Save Samples feature, and then use the SAVE PCG file with only the program bank with your own presets that are using those samples.
Then you have a small file with only those sounds and the corresponding samples.

I've did this for several of my own synths, so i have files like:
VIRUSTI.PCG and KSC
NORDLEAD4.PCG and KSC
JP8000.PGC and KSC
and so on....

this also comes in handy if i just want to use the sounds of one of those synths, i only have to load for instance the nordlead4.pcg and KSC samples, and then i have my own nordlead 4 presets on the kronos.
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for taking the time Qui to answer so elaborately.

However, I did what you described. My problem seems to have risen since I accumulated sample sets in 15 different userbanks. Point is that the userbank KSC in the autoload also loads all 15 earlier userbanks as well. What I tried to do was making one single, transferable userbank out of these 15.

I did load the samples of the first userbank with the CLEAR ALL command, as you rightly describe. And after that, I added the others with the APPEND command.

Now, I tried this twice, following the manual carefully.(especially the part on "Creating a new KSC by loading individual Multisamples"). The result is this: I do get a new userbank, but if i check, the KSC has so little data in it, that it is quiet improbable that all my samples are in it. So probably the new userbank still refers to files on the Kronos HD itself, but as a single file, it is not transferable.

So something seems not to be working in the append part. A bug?

Alternative solution is that I put all 15 userbanks on one USB. But I have become really scared that by making one mistake in the directory structure, it will not work anymore.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laandodeman wrote:
I did load the samples of the first userbank with the CLEAR ALL command, as you rightly describe. And after that, I added the others with the APPEND command.

Now, I tried this twice, following the manual carefully.(especially the part on "Creating a new KSC by loading individual Multisamples"). The result is this: I do get a new userbank, but if i check, the KSC has so little data in it, that it is quiet improbable that all my samples are in it. So probably the new userbank still refers to files on the Kronos HD itself, but as a single file, it is not transferable.

So something seems not to be working in the append part. A bug?


Ah i see what you don't understand yet about the sample system, i'm doing this from memory since i don't have the kronos at my side now, but this you need to know:
- The KSC file doesn't hold the samples, it only is a file with the references to the samples in a directory that has the same name as the KSC file
- in the same folder of your backup you also find .KMP and .KSF files in a folder. The KSF files contains the actual samples. Therefor you also have to copy these folders with the samples. The KSF files is in the root of your backup folder, the KSF files are in the a different folder in the root of your backup folder

So if you copy those also then you have the complete package for your own set. Of course you don't have to load the 15 old KSC files seperately anymore in the autoload when you use your new combined 15 files KSC file.

So, a summary:
- The KSC file is a reference file with pointers to the (multi)-samples in a folder with the same name as the KSC file
- Each KMP file is a definition of a multisample with references to all the separate samples for that multisample
- The KSF files are the separate samples (like the separate wave files you used, for creating your multisample)
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems this is something to explore further Qui. Found the KSFs. But they all have the same name. So I suppose that I should keep them in the original (all 15) directories for the Kronos to be able to find them?

In other words, do I need to make a comprehensive backup of all 15 backups and then copy them on a USB, and copy all these to the other Kronos?

It is a bit clumsy but at least it might be doable.....
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jones
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, can't you take your keyboard with you.?
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