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[jimknopf]

You missed the main part of my message.
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[Bald Eagle]

Use headphones ... Tune one channel to 440 and the other to 432. It will produce Binaural Beats at a frequency of 8Hz which is the low end of Mu waves.

[SanderXpander]

Take a different substance or different size plate and you'll get different results.
I don't think I dismissed anything, I actually went pretty much point by point. But I guess I'm with Jim here, let's agree to disagree and come together on Korg stuff

[Sharp]

[Cpilot]

I have 14 musical instruments (one of which is a guitar that I never play), and they're all tuned to 440Hz. So if I tuned my Kronos to 432Hz it would sound rather strange alongside the others. It's not even a semitone. So I think I'll stay with 440Hz for now.

[runningman67]

fibonacci spiral in nature





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[psionic311]

I'm a hard science guy. But I do see some points to be made for "the other side". I'm going to try to broker a middle ground: science and hard facts are good, but rigid and/or accepted practices aren't necessarily the best choice (if we but had the option to choose imposing standards in a relentless multi-valued society...)



Standards and traditions and science can provide a good deal of productive organization for us biological organisms otherwise known as humans. This is the stability, and growth and complexity, that society gives us. For some individuals though, certain "standards" might be more constraint than liberation...



For example, the first few decades of rock guitar experiments saw a lot of gravitating to the "natural" open chord progressions in the keys of E, A, D, and G, and of course the basic acoustic guitar chords with open strings -- C, G, D, Fmaj7, what have you. Whatever it was, songs and therefore vocal ranges were centered around this.

When it was discovered by more and more than tuning down from E A D G B E on the guitar made for some really heavy sounding stuff, an alternative was formed. Hello E flat. Hiya Drop D. Low C#!?! Metal "sounds" heavy because lower is looser. Alternative rock and alternative metal relies on alternative tunings.

There always is a culture of the alternative.

The reasons are many, but they include thinking outside of the box, sincere creative exploration, and expanding boundaries, as well as misinterpretation, intended deviation, and outright rebellion.

As SanderExpander has pointed out, A440 took a long while to arrive as a standard, and is not universal.

But our numbering system is likewise not universal. "440" is an arbitrary number we draw up... the time length of 1 Hertz is also a human invention. Natural nature doesn't care if we use A440 or A441 or A435 or just or Arabic or Indian intonations. Arguing numerological arguments are closed-system arguments based on an arbitrary and changing numbering system.

However...

Objects in nature DO resonate at natural frequencies. And those frequencies often do *not* match A440.

One convoluted example is the AC electricity (mains) that come from the power plants in the US -- this is 60Hz.

Unfortunately for bass players, and rock bands in general, is that that 60Hz frequency lies between a low A and a low B. At A440, that electrical hum is very dissonant with either A or B, and therefore all keys that use those notes...

A better choice of reference frequency in the US *could* be A480.

Mathematically, and numerologically(!), 480 is very divisible. Best of all, it puts low A at 60 Hz, in consonance with the electrical hum. The gut feeling in the electrified musician and the electronic audience would be better sympathetic resonance for the important guitar keys of E A D G.

Unfortunately, what works in theory is often what is not used in practice. Go figure.

Bottom line for me is this: please, please do use A440 because standards are generally good. (AC/DC didn't, and it sucks trying to play along with their out-of-tune but rocking songs). But... keep your options open... and experiment... think outside the box... expand boundaries... Whatever floats your boat and spawns creativity can't be all bad.

Rebel if you need to. But it's much more effective to first master the internal rules of "the system", and then to artistically defy the system by breaking their rules right in front of their unbelieving eyes and ears.

Loosely structured chaos within defined organizational parameters reaps much more satisfaction upon an audience than just pure chaos. This is how you tell the difference between a psychotic genius artist and a noise-making never-was wanna-be pretender. Right?



(Can you tell I have some free time today?)

[slowtrain]

[Bertotti]

Both sides are interesting, In mandolin building particularly carved top, there are whole groups of people who study Chaladi patterns and how they are connected to the instruments, which instruments sound good which don;t which patterns tend to appear in the instruments people prefer how the patterns change once a top plate is joined to the rim and the back etc.

I know of one man who also performs tv holography on instrument plates and instruments and try making comparisons.

Now with that comment I will switch gears and ask how all of this ties into some of the crazy stringed instruments of the middle east or far east.

I have tried various sweetened tunings on guitar and did not like them. I am now interested to see what frequency a guitar I tune by ear is playing at. I know according to my strobe it is usually a bit flatter then A=440Hz.

And now I will leave and pretend that I contributed in some way to a subject that I find interesting but know little about.

[danatkorg]

[Mike Conway]

[Sharp]

[karmathanever]

OK guys, so in an attempt to soothe my mind, I tried to adjust my Kronos master tune in GLOBAL mode to EXACTLY 432 - but it doesn't seem possible - I can get very close but is that still going to leave me unbalanced….?


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[Sharp]

[buschmann]

I've studied the kammertonen and tempraments for a while when i was doing my bachelorthesis. My conclution is in accordance with SanderXpander and some of the others that the 440 is arbitrary in the scence that it has risen in parallel with our musical instruments technology; Shorter instruments gave less tention and hence lower kammertonen. The fact that 432 has risin to power again is partly because of Verdi, who in the 1800s (1800-1900 in europa) was in the forefront of institutionalization the kammertonen, which was all over the place.

To the point of 432 being the center of something magical.. This is at best a new wave movement frontet by wierd guys on yogamats. It looks pretty and has some numbers that happen to look "just right". No evidence what so ever, and most likely just a coincidence. Sorry, hertz freaks.

If you really want to tingle the academic in me, talk about temperaments and how it may affect us. While not a favorite with musicologists it at least has some academic traction. I cant remeber the professor that has written most about this, but check this video out:


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