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Tarekith · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:49 am Post subject:

Fwiw, I wasn't trying to imply that ONLY headroom is responsible for clicks, just that it can add to how often they occur if you're not careful.
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roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:25 am Post subject:

SMK, I already know this. What frustrates me is that ok, I can understand this happening while the machine is looping. That's why I mentioned the workaround. But its ridiculous if the clicking is THIS bad even if you're just playing freehand in keyboard mode! I literally can't play a 2nd note until the first one dies down or else it will click.

If I set up a patch with a long release on one of my other synths, it will not click like this. Or do you think this is a case of analog vs digital? If it is, that's why I think Korg can and should fix this. Even on the korg volca keys the clicking is not this bad. And when you do hear it, it kinda goes with the sound (analog charm maybe?) but on the electribe, it just sounds out of place and really tarnishes the sound.
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roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:40 am Post subject:

and by the way don't think im discounting what you wrote. I did read it and your advice is spot on about masking it, etc. I listened to some of the demo patterns and you're right, you can hear them in there, too, if you isolate parts. But these clicks just sound horrible. Its not like the click even goes with the sound. Pull up the OSC I mentioned (389 string ens) and try it and see. the click just sounds terrible. first I was wondering if it was just the pcm sounds but the synth oscillators kinda have it, too. to my ears it just renders a lot of types of sounds you want unusable.
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dutchcow · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:46 am Post subject:

The clicking needs to be fixed too. But I worry Korg is not interested in it. After yet another short and nearly rude reply form Korg support I'm close to returning this box.

If Korg refuses to let us know which and if these issues will be fixed whats the point in keeping it?

I'm lucky I have a 60 day trial period. I guess I need to save up a little more and get an Elektron box instead.

wasstof · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:21 am Post subject:

I've just been messing with OSC389 String Ens and i'm not getting any clicking even when i'm mashing the keys in either Chord or Keyboard mode...
Strange!!!
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SMK · Platinum Member Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 1197

Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

Everything described here tells me that this has absolute nothing to do with headroom. It sounds like the envelopes were designed to be "punchy." On a lot of analog synthesizers, the amp envelopes have a bit of a pop to them when they are triggered on, which is actually good for making percussive sounds. It's more noticeable using PCM waveforms because there's usually additional noise encoded into the samples.

On my Korg R3, this feature can be actually be adjusted on its own in the Amp settings (it's referred to as "Punch"), but it appears that there's no way to tweak this on the Electribe. One thing you can try though is slightly increasing the attack of the Amp Envelope so that it smooths out the beginning of the gate. Setting it to something like +5 should eliminate the click sound while still keeping the attack speed pretty much the same.
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roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject:

thank you all for getting back to me. I will give you the patch settings as well as upload a file later to so you can hear. But for now, you can test it as SMK did by turning on amp/eg and putting on a long decay/release.

But I think some of you already get what I'm saying.

Also SMK that's interesting that the padkontrol solved your kpro issues. maybe there is some gate/decay value that the pads were transmitting?
(btw I was using the electribe standalone, no external controller.)

And yes an editor would be awesome. For now a workaround might be to just upload patterns as all info is stored in them anyway.
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Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

Decay and Release effect the sound after the envelope is triggered. Adjusting these will make zero difference on what happens the exact moment a key is pressed or the sequencer retriggers the envelope. I'll say it again: try adjusting the AMP/EG Attack knob just a nudge and see if that eliminates the "click" sound. This is very basic synthesis here, haha. If the sound clicks when the envelope is triggered, smooth out the attack time.
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roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject:

yes you would think basic synthesis applies here but it doesn't seem to be the case. I can even pull my attack up to the halfway mark and i'll STILL get clicks.
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roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject:

OK I had some time to kill so here are some settings for those of you with an electribe2 on hand to try out.

First load an INIT (blank) pattern. Then start making the following patch (which is by default on part 1, I didn't change too much here)

OSC: Saw
Pitch: 0
Glide: 0
OSC Edit: 0
Filter: electribe LPF
Cutoff: 55
Res: 73
EG INT: 0

Mod EG+ Filter
Modulation Speed and Depth on 0

Level: 100
Pan: Center
Attack: 42
Decay/Release: 121

AMP/EG: ON

Poly 1/2

Do you get clicks? Here is a file I recorded just now so you can hear:

https://soundcloud.com/rob-labs/electribe-click-test

Notice whats happening in the file:
First I am playing the patch in Keyboard Mode on Mono, first without the AMP on, then with it. So far so good. Then I switch to Poly, first without the amp and then with it on. CLICKS. Then while still on poly, i am playing a single note multiple times. CLICKS. Then if I try to play a 4 note chord (while still in keyboard mode): CLICKS!

This leads me to believe its some type of digital artifact or glitch, something associated with Poly, because it happens with or without AMP on, albeit worse when it is on.
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Ted3000 · Platinum Member Joined: 06 Jul 2013 Posts: 625

I don't know exactly why the clicks happen on the e2, but I do know this:

Clicks are caused by discontinuities in the waveform, and can be heard louder on bassy tones without a lot of high frequencies.

A click can happen with a freerunning oscillator that does not start out at the zero crossing. Instantly opening an amp gate while a sine oscillator is at a random point in the waveform will create clicks of random volume as you trigger notes.

A click can also happen when a level jumps instantly. With the E2's paraphonic envelope retriggering, the latest velocity determines the overall volume. So you can get a click when pressing a note while the previous one is releasing - there's an instant level jump. Click! Discontinuity.

You can also get a click without paraphony. Even on drums. And plenty of analog synths will click, especially on those lowpassed bass tones where the click isn't masked by high freq.

Without full polyphonic voices, and without oscillators that start at the zero crossing, and without slewed attacks and releases, I'm not surprised at the clicking.
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roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:17 pm Post subject:

All accurate points, Ted3000, but I find the clicking to be significantly worse on this electribe than on other synths. The clicking as you can hear in the audio demo is a very high frequency click. I can dial in the same basic patch on my volca keys or minibrute, for instance, and I will not get the same clicks. Maybe its an analog vs digital thing, as I've said, but then I've used other digital synths that didn't have clicking this severe. One thing I've done to alleviate this is use the ifx LP filter. It cuts most of it out, unlike the part filter which seems to make it worse as you turn it towards 0.

Its just a shame, really, because its like you're being forced to play a certain way - you're limited with how much cutoff you can use, and you can't really play notes back to back. And the worst thing about this is that the decay/release tails are super long! you can get awesome pad sounds out of this, amazingly so! But then that click rears its ugly head! I understand that every synth has their own nuances and whatnot, but I feel like this is something related to the digital architecture that can hopefully be improved with a firmware update.
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Re-Member · Platinum Member Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 657

roblabs · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject:

you can still get clicks even with the amp/eg off! The culprits seem to lie in the filter and having poly on. I can remove it with the LP filter IFX, but that's not a great workaround if I want another effect on the sound..

And why is this a problem? Lets say I'm in keyboard mode, and I want to play an inverted chord....well even as I play the chord I hear clicks.

Theres ways around it, somewhat, but I personally have never dealt with clicks this bad on any other gear/software.
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