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BEHRINGER MIDI FOOT CONTROLLER FCB1010
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Snorkum
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject: BEHRINGER MIDI FOOT CONTROLLER FCB1010 Reply with quote

Has anybody used a Behringer Midi Foot Controller FCB1010 with the PA900. If so, how did it work for you?
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Dikikeys
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess a lot depends on what you want to do with it... As has been said on another thread, Korg have refused to provide detailed sys-ex definitions for a lot of the commands, so there's only a certain amount of things you CAN do with MIDI.

It might help to lay out what you intend to use it for, then maybe someone with one (or someone that knows what can and can't be done with CC's and sys-ex) can help you better...
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, what do you want to do with it - I have used one with PA1XPro, PA2XPro and PA3X-76 and recently helped a member set one up on PA600.

The things I use mine for:-
Selecting PERFORMANCES and SOUNDS
Selecting STYLE ELEMENTS (FILL/INTRO/ENDING/VARS etc..etc.)
Managing volumes for UPPER 1 & 2
Using direct switch pedal assignment (replaces need for a separate pedal to the switch pedal port)

You can use it for just about anything that has CC/PC MIDI
(note that there are some subtle MIDI data differences between PA models)
It is possible to apply some SYSEX but it is messy.
The Behringer (free) PC editor is awesome and the easiest way to program it, however it can all be done without the editor.

Pete Very Happy
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Snorkum
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses.
Pete, you said. That is exactly what I want to use the Midi Controller for on my PA900. What I like about this one is that it also has two expression pedals, which I could use.
Can you tell me a little bit more about it.
Your inside would be greatly apreciate it.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Snorkum

The concepts are pretty straight forward - these are just the high-level steps.
Decide what you want the pedals to do, get the relevant MIDI CC/PC info from the PA900 manual (if it's not there ,use the info from the PA3X/PA2X manuals - the info is almost the same), run the FCB1010 PC editor (with pedal hooked up), enter the pedal MIDI data, transmit it to the FCB1010 and away you go.

Now that does over-simplify it a bit, but it seriously is not difficult.

What else do you want to know?
Happy to help you in any way I can…...

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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Snorkum
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete:

I know it has 10 pedals. Does every pedal work the same?
Meaning can I send CC with every pedal?
Sorry for all these questions, but I have never used a Foot Controller to control keyboard functions.
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Dikikeys
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main issue with using MIDI expression and switch pedals rather than the expression and EC-5 inputs on the Korg (this applies to pretty much any make of arranger) is that, in the Korg, the Performance takes care of assigning the pedal to whatever Parts you want, whatever function you want, and they can be different each Performance.

So, one Performance with the organ on top and a piano in the LH, you want the expression to only affect the organ. Now flip that, have organ on the LH and piano at the top, now the expression pedal is needed on the RH Part.

But try to do that with the Behringer, and you have to program an entirely different preset in the pedal (AND select it) so that it sends expression on the UPR MIDI channel only for the first case, and on the LWR only for the second.

So using those extra expression pedals on the Behringer is likely to involve a LOT of programming if you need different things for different Performances. And probably some kind of system for calling the preset up from the arranger or your laptop/iPad or you'll be bending down and messing a lot with the pedal while you play.

Personally, I'm of the opinion it's time for Korg to change from the EC-5, and go to a system with more switches (and maybe another expression pedal input) that just uses dumb on/off switches, so that the arranger OS can take care of assignment duties. Something with 10 switches and another expression input would be good...

I use a Roland FC-7 with my Roland's, and I can tell you, even 7 switches is a bit restrictive! Especially as the morons at Roland don't allow you to set a different assignment for each Performance, it's one global setup! Rolling Eyes

If Korg aren't willing to toss the EC-5 after all this time, maybe TWO EC-5 inputs would suffice... That way it's up to the player if they need more than the basic 5. But 5 switches for a four Variation arranger leaves you little in the way of options if you task 4 of the switches to Variation/Autofill duties, which you really need if you are playing full piano recognition mode.

Alternatively, a way to remap incoming MIDI CC's and switch controllers internally to the function of your choice rather than the limited selection you currently have would allow things like the Behringer to be more easily integrated into your setup.

But, one way or another, today's MUCH more complicated and capable arrangers need a FAR better footswitch control system than did the simple 2 Variation arrangers of 15 years ago. The arrangers have got way more complex, but we are still tied to 90's accessories. Time to join the 21st century from the knee downwards! Twisted Evil
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DonM
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that the PA900 does not have capability to use EC5. What a monstrous shame! Creates all kinds of problems because, since the sustain pedal is only for sustain, it leaves only one assignable foot switch. It can do a lot of funcitons, but only one at a time. Disgraceful.
I bought a Peak foot controller that works well.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorkum wrote:
I know it has 10 pedals. Does every pedal work the same?
Meaning can I send CC with every pedal?
Sorry for all these questions, but I have never used a Foot Controller to control keyboard functions.


Hi Snorkum
Yes all the pedals work in a similar manner and yes, you can send different CCs to the pedals.

The point about the "EC5" that is mentioned is that there are some functions (which you can assign to the footswitch) which cannot be activated by CCs (rather SYSEX)

The EC5 pedal handles this (same as for your footswitch) through the OS on the PA (unfortunately EC5 not available on your keyboard model).

So, in summary, the FCB1010 is a good and cheap MIDI pedal solution giving you 10 x 99 banks of pedals to configure and 2 expression pedals for whatever you want - that is each of the 99 banks can have 10 unique pedal configurations and 2 unique expression pedal configurations - e.g. I used Exp A for UPPER 1 volume and Exp B for UPPER 2 volume - at one stage I used one of the Exp pedals to control the speed of the Rotary effect.

If you are performing or recording and want to free up those hands then this is a great pedal - I have mine set up to select some favourite PERFORMANCES and for FILLs 1,2,3,4 and BREAK and ENDING1.

If you decide to get one, I would be happy to send you my configuration to try (there may be some subtle differences from my PA3X which should be easy to sort out.)

I assisted one of our forum members recently via a Skype session - all good - all successful.

Have a serious think about EXACTLY and IDEALLY what you would like to have assigned to the pedals - if the MIDI implementation data is there, then it should be achievable - just bear in mind that any function requiring a SYSEX MIDI message will potentially not work.

The Behringer FCB1010 PC editor is a life saver too!!!!
For example, you may want several banks of pedals but want to have the Exp A & B always for the UPPER volumes - this is made easy in the editor which allows you to copy and paste banks of pedal configs.
Also, you can assign one of the 10 pedals to "replace" your PA900 footswitch - this is achieved by using the special port on the FCB connected to your PA900 switch port - now you have all your "pedal" operation on the FCB - no need for an additional single footswitch pedal

HERE:- http://host.mtnsys.com:81/faq-fcb/PCEditorBeta.htm

Hope this helps

Cheers

Pete Very Happy

Small disclaimer: I have successfully used and set up all of this on my PA1XPro, PA2XPro and PA3X-76 - I don't own a PA900 but would be very very surprised if it didn't work.
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Snorkum
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete:
THis explanation is awwesome and you have described exactly what I want to do with my 900. Of course I am aware that ther eis a learning curve asssiated with it. But mainly I want to do is select, Variations, fills, expressions, (Exactly what you dis, Upp1 and Upp2), etc. I don't see a reason why it should not work with the 900.
And I really appreciate your offering your help with this. Thank you very much. It will take me some time to get it because of my work schedule.
But Idefinately will let you know.
Again Thanks for your explanation. This was a great help.
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Dikikeys
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why the Behringer is needed for Expression duties, though...

The PA900 already has an Expression input. And the OS takes care of routing duties extremely well. Rather than have two pedals, one for UPR1 and one for UPR2 (and a boatload of headaches if you want to do something different), the Korg allows you to set up so that it affects both, or one, or the other, or both at the same time (probably allows you to scale how much swell, too, or invert one to do a cross-fade between the two).

And, of course, not just two UPR Parts, but ANY of the Parts, including style or SMF. And the correct routing and MIDI channel is remembered with each Performance. TBH, unless you are used to running multiple swell pedals (maybe you're a classical organist? Twisted Evil ), I'd say stick to just the one. It always SOUNDS like a good idea to have more, but it's a PITA in practice!

Yes, forgot the PA900 has no EC-5 input... Time to put pressure onto Korg to add it. Their Roland competition in the MOTL range (the BK-9) already has a 7 switch input. Be nice to get one on the MOTL Korg... Cool

At the very least... Korg need to release the full sys-ex information. If they are going to FORCE their MOTL users to use MIDI pedals, they could at least give them the information they need to leverage the tool.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't see why the Behringer is needed for Expression duties, though...


It isn't, I agree neither is it needed for the FILLs VARs etc but the FCB simply gives you the option of having several instant pedals (10) rather than just 2 and yes, you can assign its EXP pedals to any part.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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Snorkum
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate both of your's information and different opinions. Here's my delema. I have one foot switch. You can do only one function. Let's say I use it for start and stop. During the song I need to switch from Var 1 to Var 3. Well I have to do this manually. Taking the risk not being fast enough or forget because I am concentrating on playing. Again in the same song I want to go back to Var 1. I play a song where I use the break and Var1 at the same time. Or Var3 and Pad3 at the same time. Again I cannot use the foot pedal because it is programmed for something else. And so on, and so on. Later on I would like to select another instrument voices on the fly.
I have chosen the FCB1010 because of it's flexible, inexpensive and from the description it sounds like it can do a lot. More than I need right now. For me it would be expandable in the future. It looks like it is a little bulky, however, I'll take that for flexibility. Plus it has two(2) expression pedals.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe your reasoning is very sensible.
Yes it is a little bulky - consider the "foot space" you have under your keyboard stand - e.g. an "X-type" stand can leave you with a narrow space at your feet if the stand is high.

Pete Very Happy
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Snorkum
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete:
When you purchase this piece of equipment does everything come with it, or do you need to purchase additional items to make this work. I assume at this price you would have to purchase the Midi to USB conversion cable to plug it in to your computer to program.
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