Korg Forums

[MS-DOS]

hey guys,

ex electribe 2 owner here, and would like to give my impressions on the box.

i usually do not write reviews or even post that much, but i feel the need to get this out.
i have had some regrettable purchases but this is the only one that left me genuinely sad. here is my story.

disclaimer:
it is my personal opinion and it will be a negative one.
if you are an electribe 2 fan, take no offense and enjoy your groovebox.
if you are on the preorder list, this may interest you.

i am still a big fan of the emx. when they announced the new one with polyphony, ableton export, velocity sensitive pad, and battery power it was a no brainer. i was on the phone the minute i saw it and put down the orders with my dealer.
first in line.

first couple of hours were really fun. it sounded alright but not great. presets were very cheesy again but so were on the emx and i was able to bend them into all sorts of interesting ways. then the realizations came.

- the sound editing options are downright insulting. it is design equivalent to someone giving you the middle finger. even with motion control i there is no way you can sculpt them into something unique.

- the way modulation works is also oversimplified and pre-set. this is not necessarily bad, but the options they provided were completely meh.

- lfo does not go into audio rate.

- the effects, while cleaner and maybe better sounding (subjective) are completely vanilla. and again one paramater per fx with a single master one.(that cannot be tweaked)
this is the same fx setup as with the korg ipolysix and ims20. the option to chain effects on mx was really, really clever and gave in essence infinite options in terms of sound palette. this box on the other hand is completely pedestrian when it comes to fx. one insert - one parameters. the one we chose. deal with it.

- the design of it, usability aspect, is also a big step backwards.
where the emx1 was 100% immediate, this has you scrolling through a bunch of menus. apparently there are shortcuts and maybe it gets faster with muscle memory but its still far less direct. cannot tell you how many times i lost a pattern because of turning the wrong knob i am not the only one. that right there is a sign of a poorly thought out design.

- the selection of the parts is also odd. maybe it works for other users but again it is less direct and needlessly so.

- manual is a bit of a joke, usually that is a clear sign when a product has been rushed.

- eats batteries like nobodies business. portable on paper only in my experience.

- some of the more interesting effects again are as a master only.(reverb, grain, slice etc) with no option to edit them apart from kaosspad?

- bugs: most have been already documented but i dont see much about the clicky envelopes. that sealed it pretty much for me. faster consecutive notes invariably produce clicking sounds. it annoyed the hell out of me.

- midi cc not being sent by motion controlled knobs. they do when not recorded though. this is just another F U really.

- hardwired midi channels and midi cc. ridiculous step back. even the volcas can change channels ffs.

- not possible to motion control all of the knobs. again i seem to remember emx being really good at this and i was able to warp stuff anyway i liked.

- no midi thru

- drums are massive and punchy but completely unoriginal. some may like them others will hate them.

- it´s bizzare to me that they put in a bucketload of filters and leave so few options to edit anything.

there are positives also. pads feel great, groove templates are genious, it is portable size and it feels good using it. you can get into the groove with it. some claim it sounds great but the filter variations did not do much for me really and on the whole it lacks character. i thought screw the demos, i will make my sounds anyway but that is just not possible.

over the years korg have bceome the company i gave most money to. each and every product is good but just barely, with bizarre omissions and limitations that if not in place would make the instruments far more usable: why does the monotribe have no midi in? because do it yourself. why can the volca sample not sample? here´s a devkit, go away.


i would not have believed that after a decade korg will half ass this. the box has definitely been rushed out which is strange considering how much time they had to get it right. somebody said if it had been dubbed kaossilator pro, it would make more sense and that really makes sense.
the more time one invested into emx the more it rewarded you. it could sound totally unrecognizable. maybe i did not give the e2 enough chance but in my experience it is more of a preset box than anything else. it does work very nice as a sequencer. you can hook this up to a akai s series or some of the ensoniq samplers and have a blast. or use it with a synth module.


what emx had in spades is character. yes it sounded metallic, harsh, and sometimes cheesy, but it had buch of attitude and its limitations invited you to be creative. the e2 is a polar opposite. more refined sound but not much you can do with it. much as its casing, its a sleek but completely bland box.

the only way this release makes sense is if the new electribes are precursors to an upcoming electribe PRO, same way the smaller electribes were before the EMX and ESX.

in any case it left me sad and i sold it. i really cannot get past the fact that they actually took away so much with a new iteration of a product.
and again, clicking envelopes were killing me. no workaround for this.

before someone says, "it will be fixed with the next update" i am done waiting for companies to maybe fix stuff or do things right. no one should support this as it promotes reckless product design.

still waiting for the sampler version which i plan to use with an ipad as sound module on the go. ipolysix/ims20 and the electribe 2 worked really well together and i am eager to use my own samples.

i am far more cautious this time. infact i will be far less likely to trust korg from now on. this is coming from a long time fan.

it is a good bang for the buck but considering you can get an asrx for less, maybe not so much. i would not mind paying double the amount for a proper electribe that actually offers more, not less, that a groovebox they themselves released 10 years ago.
progress.

hope this opinion helps someone.

[Buska]

I agree with most that you said, I also sold my emx2 for much the same reasons.
I don't hold huge hope for the esx2, but just to have a small pc free sampler that uses SD and is fast to use.. I will love that.

I've had many samplers over the years:
Mpc2000
Mpc2500
Akai S900
Akai S612
AsrX
EPS16+
Akai S1100
Mpc500
Akai S20
Etc...

All I want is a simple reliable small sampler that can intergrate with my small studio and is light to carry. Ableton export and SD storage is also a huge plus.

I actually loved the UI of the EMX2 coming from MPC's, and I much prefer the menu diving of the emx2 to the pad shortcut MPC system or the buttons on the eps16+.

Can't wait, I like to make my own samples and transfer them to a sampler and play from there. The emx2 was great just kicking back on the couch or at a mates having beers.. I got good battery life too, but I was using rechargeable nimh batteries.
_________________
Korg gear : EMX1SD, Volca Sample, DS-10
iOS: Gadget, iM1, iElectribe, iMs20, iPolysix, iKaossilator
History : Korg E2, Mini KP, Kaossilator Mini, R3

[MS-DOS]

hey buska,

thanks for your insight.

fwiw i am very surprised how good the volca sample sounded.
the memory limit is a bit of a bummer but you can use the old trick as with any of the classic samplers. pitch the sample octave or two up to save on memory.

when pitched down in volca, it sound grimy in a really nice way. no sp1200 or s900 but a nice lo-fi. so you can use it for loops too.

no matter what i always come back to the mpc1000. that and jjos is really the pinnacle of modern hw samplers imo.

and again for the people that enjoy the e2, more power to you. i just could not get over some issues.

btw i used rechargable nimh but still they ran out fast.

[Ted3000]

Some fair critical points. Some debatable points. And sympathy - I went through a letdown period before I warmed up to it again.

-The sound editing options are downright insulting. it is design equivalent to someone giving you the middle finger. even with motion control i there is no way you can sculpt them into something unique.

The groovebox concept puts integration and simplicity ahead of any 1 element. The electribe is not a full-featured synthesizer. No electribe ever offered the kind of synthesis you get on an average VA. It's also not a full featured sequencer, nor a professional effects processor. It's a groovebox.

- the way modulation works is also oversimplified and pre-set. this is not necessarily bad, but the options they provided were completely meh.

You are right. It's simple and preset. Most synths have a dedicated LFO just for pitch, (plus a pitch bend wheel) with multiple LFOs and modulation sources that are freely assignable to a long list of destinations. But again, the electribe isn't really a synth.

- lfo does not go into audio rate.

Correct. It also never claimed to offer audio-rate and FM style modulation. That's also not a given even on actual synths.

- the effects, while cleaner and maybe better sounding (subjective) are completely vanilla. and again one paramater per fx with a single master one.(that cannot be tweaked) this is the same fx setup as with the korg ipolysix and ims20. the option to chain effects on mx was really, really clever and gave in essence infinite options in terms of sound palette. this box on the other hand is completely pedestrian when it comes to fx. one insert - one parameters. the one we chose. deal with it.

You'll get no argument out of me. The inserts should be voiced much bolder and better, and have at least a shift edit parameter. This may change, we'll see.

- the design of it, usability aspect, is also a big step backwards.
where the emx1 was 100% immediate, this has you scrolling through a bunch of menus. apparently there are shortcuts and maybe it gets faster with muscle memory but its still far less direct. cannot tell you how many times i lost a pattern because of turning the wrong knob i am not the only one. that right there is a sign of a poorly thought out design.

This a UI learning curve. I've made friends with my e2, I no longer lose patterns and turn the wrong thing or hit the wrong button. Sure, it could have used a few more inches and a few more knobs, but it's workable. In a world where a flat featureless slab of glass displaying a picture is considered a UI, I'm comfortable with 16 pads and a handful of knobs.

- the selection of the parts is also odd. maybe it works for other users but again it is less direct and needlessly so.

Blind people can read using bumps on paper, the human mind is infinitely adaptable. It's fine for me.

- manual is a bit of a joke, usually that is a clear sign when a product has been rushed.

The manual is shallow and preliminary. Ever since flash memory and USB ports became standard, early adopters have become de facto beta testers. It's not just Korg. Firmware revisions are often smashing bugs and adding features years after release. I don't like it but it's industry-wide.

- eats batteries like nobodies business. portable on paper only in my experience.

This is the first battery complaint I've read. (By the way: are people really using these on trains and cafes? Please notice me, world! I'm interesting!")

- some of the more interesting effects again are as a master only.(reverb, grain, slice etc) with no option to edit them apart from kaosspad?

Yep. DSP-hogging reverb and grain would not be possible to implement on the insert. The chipset barely has enough juice to offer 1 reverb at a time. At least it sounds a little better than the EMX/ESX's weird bandpassed metallic wind verb.

- bugs: most have been already documented but i dont see much about the clicky envelopes. that sealed it pretty much for me. faster consecutive notes invariably produce clicking sounds. it annoyed the hell out of me.

You can get clicking on actual analog synths, too. Paraphonic voicing produces clicks. Bass tones with free-running phase can produce clicks. Retriggered envelopes can produce volume discontinuity in the waveform. This ins't unique to the electribe.

- midi cc not being sent by motion controlled knobs. they do when not recorded though. this is just another F U really.

Sounds annoying but I've never needed it.

- hardwired midi channels and midi cc. ridiculous step back. even the volcas can change channels ffs.

Part One is channel 1. Etc. Please, someone explain how this is a drawback.

- not possible to motion control all of the knobs. again i seem to remember emx being really good at this and i was able to warp stuff anyway i liked.

That's probably fair, but only impacts people who don't use it standalone AND who are trying to control something obscure.

- no midi thru

Korg never said it had MIDI thru, the pics clearly showed only in and out, very few pieces of gear have thru anymore. I can't ding it for that omission. If you reply on 1980's-style daisychaining, why are you even using an all-in-one groovebox?

- drums are massive and punchy but completely unoriginal. some may like them others will hate them.

Struggling to understand what would have been better. Drums, for most people, should sound like drums. There's synthesized drums, acoustic samples, processed sounds, beatbox style, weird little blips, crackling vinyl sampled - people praise the drum sounds across the board. First I've heard of them lacking. Only thing I'd like is a few more crash cymbals.

- it´s bizzare to me that they put in a bucketload of filters and leave so few options to edit anything.

Filters are the section that imparts the bulk of the character when using standard osc waves. To get a bunch of modeled filters goes a long way in opening up the sound past the standard vanilla electribe lowpass. Are you complaining that we got 16 filters, or are you just confused that you get so many when there's only 1 LFO?

I really suggest embracing the limitations.

If you're so talented that the electribe seems like a crappy little tool in your big hands, then you should have NO PROBLEM rising to the challenge. Create great stuff that exploits every inch of the puny little limited synth engine. Show it you're the boss. Make people say, "Wow, you made THAT on the underpowered disappointment that is the electribe 2?"

Or maybe it's not for you. Sell it on eBay. Someone will be delighted with it.
_________________
www.soundcloud.com/astrospy

[Corbytender]

The E2 seems to be very polarizing. I'll admit, I never owned the hardware EMX, but spent plenty of time with iPad version. I can certainly see where a big fan of the EMX would be confused and frustrated by some of the workflow changes in the new box.

I bought the E2 on a whim after watching Tarekith's review. I had some serious buyer remorse for the first week - I almost sent it back a number times after 2 hour jam sessions where I just couldn't squeeze anything interesting out of it. Now, I can't imagine not having it. That's not to say the E2 is a perfect box. (Almost) every gripe you listed is valid, and for some, may be a deal breaker.

I've found that I am able to create some really weird, interesting, even great-sounding and highly usable patterns with the sound engine. I feel that Korg product always force you to work within limitations, some of which make no sense. But limitations can endorse creativity rather than stifle it. I find myself more and more inspired by the E2 every time I sit down with it. Creating something that doesn't sound cheesy may be a bigger challenge on the E2, but it's ultimately more gratifying. I also really dig the "bland" minimal look of the box (I usually disable the color flashes on the bottom.) I'm kind of sick of all my hardware looking like lame DJ toy s**t.

I will say, you have to devote some time to this box. The learning curve is a little unconventional, but now that I know it's possible for me to make this box sound great, I am much more patient with it. Learning shortcuts really speeds things up. I think anyone who sticks with the box will eventually grow a soft spot for it. I do wish for more control over MFX, and I am hopeful for firmware updates, but even if they never come I'll have my E2 for a long time.
_________________
KORG Electribe 2, Volca Keys, Volca Sample, Gadget

[MS-DOS]

hey corbytender,

thank for respectfully chiming in.
i am sure that the box unfolds itself after some use but the problem is i found no actual depth to it. there is no learning curve really. its simple.


i do agree that art comes from limitations and am glad you have fun with it which is probably the point. hope you make great music with it.

cheers.

[captain johnson]

[MS-DOS]

[captain johnson]

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/captain-johnson

[MS-DOS]

[MS-DOS]

double post.

[Ted3000]

[captain johnson]

[Ted3000]

[MS-DOS]